On Mon, 29 Sep 2003, Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:

<some snipping/>

> Looking at this with a different mindset, I would like to point out
> that this "maven vs. centipede" 'querrelle' is harming us more than it
> is helping us.

Yes, it was my fault to be polite to Ken Nicola also mentioning
Centipede as an alternative ;-)

> I personally see no reason to change the build system, but if somebody
> volunteers to get remove stuff from our build and delegate the job to
> others, well, I'm all about avoiding reinventing wheels, so +1

I've started it to see how the community reacts on something like
this. I'm sorry to be the reason for this friction.

> At the same time, the Maven vs. Centipede debate is a human one,

exactly

> technology is something that can easily be changed, personal feelings
> aren't. There is friction between the people behind Maven and the
> people behind Centipede.
>
> This is also the reason, I believe, while Maven integration with
> Forrest is so weak:

Weak? I'd say it is inexistent. It's the Anakia vs. XSLT debate (and
Forrest is alot of XSLT for them I think). Maven uses their own DTD for
documentation. But for a project we are running ATM we've found a way to
integrate it (ok, it's just a hack, but it works for now). But as
Forrest depends on Cocoon, and Cocoon doesn't play with Maven ATM it's a
chicken egg problem. See, if Cocoon was mavenified, Forrest could build
a plugin just easily.

> the maven community associates, transivitely,
> forrest with Centipede. So it stays away from it.
>
> I think we should make an effort to get out of this silly 'impasse' and
> move on.
>
> [why am I using so many french terms today?]
>
> I'm -1 on Centipede for the following reasons:
>
>   1) it would progress the fracture between Maven and Forrest.
>   2) it would increase the friction, might give the centipede people
> feelings like "we should be an asf project too, so that the competition
> is fair", increase the friction even more, waste some of our energy in
> incubation, would force us to follow a moving target
>   3) lack of integration with Gump wouldn't hurt since it's going to be
> painful anyway to integrate gump with our real blocks (centipede nor
> maven support debian-style virtual modules, AFAIK)

I can totally understand your points.

> I know very little about Maven and Centipede, yet I've seen the flames
> go by. This sucks.
>
> We care about Forrest, we care about Gump. If Maven does good things
> but lacks a few, we should use it *exactly* for that: so that we can
> improve it, build synergies, instead of wasting energies in progressing
> a competition.

That's what I thought could be the way to improve Maven in a direction
we'd like it to move.

--
Giacomo Pati
Otego AG, Switzerland - http://www.otego.com
Orixo, the XML business alliance - http://www.orixo.com

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