Nice. Thanks to everyone who has clarified the voting rules. One minor suggestion, it would add a bit more clarity, if the "For Releases" section also mentions that committers' +1 votes are not binding, but their -1 votes are (binding).
On Sat, Jun 14, 2025 at 7:38 AM Josh McKenzie <jmcken...@apache.org> wrote: > From the gdoc where we discussed these governance rules, I think the > following comment chain is the closest to explicitly codifying what the > intent was: link > <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wOrJBkgudY2BxEVtubq9IbiFFC3d3efJSj9OIrGcqQ8/edit?disco=AAAAJo_aLDc>. > And > I believe you're right Benedict. > > It's been half a decade and there's been lingering confusion around what > is and isn't binding from how we drafted the doc - I've reverted any > non-formatting changes. And taken a crack at adding some small clarifying > language in line with what you've stated in this thread: here's a draft > attempt > <https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/pages/resumedraft.action?draftId=158863607&draftShareId=ffc854c4-0414-4740-b868-0687bb1e7ce9&;> > to do so (hopefully it's accessible...) > > The following is not intended to change the meaning of the governance > rules at all, only serve to clarify it consistent with the discussion in > this thread. > > -------------------------------------------------- > Changes: > > *Under "How we vote as a community":* > *Before: * > - Committer votes are considered “binding” > *After:* > - Committer votes are considered “binding” (excepting +1 on releases) > > *Before:* > - For Code Contributions: > *After:* > - For Code Contributions: Committer votes considered binding > > *Before:* > For CEP: > *After:* > For CEP: Committer votes considered binding > > *Before:* > For Releases: > > 1. Consensus: min 3 PMC +1, no PMC -1. These votes are neither Simple > majority nor Super majority. Vetos are to be accompanied with (technical) > rationale. > > *After:* > For Releases: > Consensus: > > - Minimum of 3 +1 from PMC members required to approve > - Any PMC or committer -1 is considered binding > - Vetos are to be accompanied with (technical) rationale. > > > I think the above text better clarifies that breakdown. The next question > becomes - was the above everyone's understanding back when we voted half a > decade ago and thus it's reasonable to adjust the wiki to reflect that > clarifying language (assuming we agree it is in fact clarifying ;) ) or do > we discuss this for a bit, get to consensus, and do a [VOTE] thread for the > revisions? > > On Fri, Jun 13, 2025, at 5:16 PM, Benedict Elliott Smith wrote: > > Chiming in after being notified of the change to the wiki. We accounted > for all this at the time, even for release votes. Note the phrasing: > "Discussion / binding votes on releases (Consensus: min 3 PMC +1, no -1)" > > That is, only positive votes from PMC members are counted, but negative > committer votes were to be counted. This is also consistent with foundation > policy, as only the PMC may approve a release, but others may reject it. > > The only votes that were intended to be PMC-only were policy/governance > votes. > > > On 2025/06/13 20:51:24 Josh McKenzie wrote: > > Doug had a great question that had me digging through gdoc comments from > 5 years ago to try and figure out the answer. > > > > Our governance page here: > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/CASSANDRA/Cassandra+Project+Governance > > > > Felt kind of unclear on what committer votes were binding for or not, > and what pmc votes were binding for or not. I tweaked heading sizes, added > horizontal dividing lines, and then changed the following line: > > 1. Committer <https://projects.apache.org/committee.html?cassandra> > votes are considered “binding < > https://www.apache.org/foundation/voting.html#binding-votes>” > > To: > > 1. Committer <https://projects.apache.org/committee.html?cassandra> > votes are considered “binding < > https://www.apache.org/foundation/voting.html#binding-votes>” on code > > > > Which leads to a question for everyone. Currently, on that wiki doc we > have: > > *How we vote as a community:* > > > > Which previously just had 'Committer votes are considered "binding"'. > Then proceeded to talk about commit votes, CEP votes, and release votes. > Committer votes are _not_ binding on releases as that's a legal thing with > the ASF; have to be a PMC member for that to be binding which was sort of > alluded to with the text: > > * Consensus: min 3 PMC +1, no PMC -1. These votes are neither Simple > majority nor Super majority. Vetos are to be accompanied with (technical) > rationale. > > > > For code commits we've considered committers binding. > > > > For CEP's.... ? Commit-bit binding? Or pmc binding? I *think* it's the > former (committers) since that's the way the wiki reads, but I think we've > been acting as PMC only binding for CEP's? I think clarifying this > explicitly (i.e. in all 3 sections for code, CEP, and release, specify > who's binding) would be good. > > > > What do we think? Is there a consensus and I'm the only one that's > confused? > > > > >
