Thanks for starting this discussion, Sumanth! Added a round of comments as well.
Summarizing my non-binding feedback: I feel that many of the items under
"Alpha" and "Beta" should be achieved prior to the release of an alpha,
especially those related to correctness/safety, scope lock, feature
completeness, deprecation, and backwards compatibility. Establishing a higher
standard for official project releases (even at the alpha and beta stage) will
help us really polish the final build together.
Ideally, I feel that contributors should have completed extensive
testing/validation to ensure that no critical or severe bugs exist prior to the
release of an alpha (e.g., data loss, consistency violations, incorrect
responses to queries, etc). Perhaps we can add a line to this effect.
Ensuring that we've met that bar prior to alpha will help us focus the final
stages of the release on gathering feedback from users + developers to validate
tooling and automation; compatibility with less commonly-used client libraries,
testing new features, evaluating performance and stability under their
workloads, etc.
– Scott
On 6/11/19, 6:45 AM, "Sumanth Pasupuleti" <sumanth.pasupuleti...@gmail.com>
wrote:
Thanks for the feedback on the product stages/ release life cycle document.
I have incorporated the suggestions and looking for any additional feedback
folks may have.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1bS6sr-HSrHFjZb0welife6Qx7u3ZDgRiAoENMLYlfz8/edit#
Thanks,
Sumanth
On Tue, May 28, 2019 at 10:43 PM Scott Andreas <sc...@paradoxica.net> wrote:
> Echoing Jon’s point here –
>
> JH: “My thinking is I'd like to be able to recommend 4.0.0 as a production
> ready
> database for business critical cases”
>
> I feel that this is a standard that is both appropriate and achievable,
> and one I’m legitimately excited about.
>
> Re: the current state of the test plan wiki in Confluence, I owe another
> pass through. There has been a lot of progress here, but I’ve let perfect
> be the enemy of the good in getting updates out. I’ll complete that pass
> later this week.
>
> Cheers,
>
> — Scott
>
> > On May 28, 2019, at 10:48 AM, Dinesh Joshi <djo...@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> > +1. Wiki could be useful to document what the overall plan. Jira to
> track progress.
> >
> > Dinesh
> >
> >>> On May 28, 2019, at 10:20 AM, Joshua McKenzie <jmcken...@apache.org>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> The unofficial rule is to not upgrade to prod till .10 is cut.
> >>
> >> FWIW, I believe it's historically .6. Which is still not a great look
> for
> >> the project.
> >>
> >> There's a ton of work going into testing 4.0 already.
> >>
> >> While I intuitively and anecdotally (from the people I've backchanneled
> >> with) believe this to be true as well, the referenced wiki page[1] and
> >> jql[2] doesn't look like it's an up to date reflection of the testing
> >> efforts going on. Is there another place this information is stored /
> >> queryable we can surface to people to keep us all coordinated?
> >>
> >> [1]
> >>
>
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/CASSANDRA/4.0+Quality%3A+Components+and+Test+Plans
> >> [2]
> >>
>
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-14862?jql=project%20%3D%20CASSANDRA%20AND%20%20labels%20%3D%204.0-QA
> >>
> >> On Tue, May 28, 2019 at 12:57 PM sankalp kohli <kohlisank...@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hi Jon,
> >>> When you say 4.0 release, how do u match it with 3.0 minor
> >>> releases. The unofficial rule is to not upgrade to prod till .10 is
> cut.
> >>> Also due to heavy investment in testing, I dont think it will take as
> long
> >>> as 3.0 but want to know what is your thinking with this.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks,
> >>> Sankalp
> >>>
> >>>> On Tue, May 28, 2019 at 9:40 AM Jon Haddad <j...@jonhaddad.com>
wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Sept is a pretty long ways off. I think the ideal case is we can
> >>> announce
> >>>> 4.0 release at the summit. I'm not putting this as a "do or die"
> date,
> >>> and
> >>>> I don't think we need to announce it or make promises. Sticking with
> >>> "when
> >>>> it's ready" is the right approach, but we need a target, and this is
> imo
> >>> a
> >>>> good one.
> >>>>
> >>>> This date also gives us a pretty good runway. We could cut our first
> >>>> alphas in mid June / early July, betas in August and release in Sept.
> >>>> There's a ton of work going into testing 4.0 already.
> >>>> Landing CASSANDRA-15066 will put us in a pretty good spot. We've
> >>> developed
> >>>> tooling at TLP that will make it a lot easier to spin up dev clusters
> in
> >>>> AWS as well as stress test them. I've written about this a few times
> in
> >>>> the past, and I'll have a few blog posts coming up that will help
show
> >>> this
> >>>> in more details.
> >>>>
> >>>> There's some other quality of life things we should try to hammer out
> >>>> before then. Updating our default JVM settings would be nice, for
> >>>> example. Improving documentation (the data modeling section in
> >>>> particular), fixing the dynamic snitch issues [1], and some
> improvements
> >>> to
> >>>> virtual tables like exposing the sstable metadata [2], and exposing
> table
> >>>> statistics [3] come to mind. The dynamic snitch improvement will
help
> >>>> performance in a big way, and the virtual tables will go a long way
to
> >>>> helping with quality of life. I showed a few folks virtual tables at
> the
> >>>> Accelerate conference last week and the missing table statistics was
a
> >>> big
> >>>> shock. If we can get them in, it'll be a big help to operators.
> >>>>
> >>>> [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-14459
> >>>> [2] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-14630
> >>>> [3] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-14572
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> On Mon, May 27, 2019 at 2:36 PM Nate McCall <zznat...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Hi Sumanth,
> >>>>> Thank you so much for taking the time to put this together.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Cheers,
> >>>>> -Nate
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Tue, May 28, 2019 at 3:27 AM Sumanth Pasupuleti <
> >>>>> sumanth.pasupuleti...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> I have taken an initial stab at documenting release types and exit
> >>>>> criteria
> >>>>>> in a google doc, to get us started, and to collaborate on.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
>
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1bS6sr-HSrHFjZb0welife6Qx7u3ZDgRiAoENMLYlfz8/edit?usp=sharing
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Thanks,
> >>>>>> Sumanth
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Thu, May 23, 2019 at 12:04 PM Dinesh Joshi <djo...@apache.org>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Sankalp,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Great point. This is the page created for testing.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
>
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/CASSANDRA/4.0+Quality%3A+Components+and+Test+Plans
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I think we need to define the various release types and the exit
> >>>>> criteria
> >>>>>>> for each type of release. Anybody want to take a stab at this or
> >>>> start
> >>>>> a
> >>>>>>> thread to discuss it?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Thanks,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Dinesh
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On May 23, 2019, at 11:57 AM, sankalp kohli <
> >>>> kohlisank...@gmail.com>
> >>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Hi,
> >>>>>>>> Is there a page where it is written what is expected from an
> >>>>> alpha,
> >>>>>>>> beta, rc and a 4.0 release?
> >>>>>>>> Also how are we coming up with Q4 2019 timeline. Is this for
> >>> alpha,
> >>>>>> beta,
> >>>>>>>> rc or 4.0 release?
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Thanks,
> >>>>>>>> Sankalp
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On Thu, May 23, 2019 at 11:27 AM Attila Wind
> >>>> <attilaw@swf.technology
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> +1+1+1 I read a blog post was talking about last sept(?) to
> >>> freeze
> >>>>>>>>> features and start extensive testing. Maybe its really time to
> >>> hit
> >>>>> it!
> >>>>>>> :-)
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Attila Wind
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/attilaw
> >>>>>>>>> Mobile: +36 31 7811355
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> On 2019. 05. 23. 19:30, ajs6f wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> +1 in the fullest degree. A date that needs to be changed is
> >>>> still
> >>>>>>>>> enormously more attractive than no date at all.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Adam Soroka
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> On May 23, 2019, at 12:01 PM, Sumanth Pasupuleti <
> >>>>>>>>> spasupul...@netflix.com.INVALID> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Having at least a ballpark target on the website will
> >>> definitely
> >>>>>> help.
> >>>>>>>>> +1
> >>>>>>>>>>> on setting it to Q4 2019 for now.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, May 23, 2019 at 8:52 AM Dinesh Joshi <
> >>> djo...@apache.org
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> +1 on setting a date.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Dinesh
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On May 23, 2019, at 11:07 AM, Michael Shuler <
> >>>>>>> mich...@pbandjelly.org>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> We've had 4.0 listed as TBD release date for a very long
> >>> time.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Yesterday, Alexander Dejanovski got a "when's 4.0 going to
> >>>>>> release?"
> >>>>>>>>>>>> question after his repair talk and he suggested possibly Q4
> >>>> 2019.
> >>>>>>> This
> >>>>>>>>>>>> morning Nate McCall hinted at possibly being close by
> >>> ApacheCon
> >>>>> Las
> >>>>>>>>> Vegas
> >>>>>>>>>>>> in September. These got me thinking..
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Think we can we shoot for having a 4.0 alpha/beta/rc ready
> >>> to
> >>>>>>>>>>>> announce/release at ApacheCon? At that time, we'll have been
> >>>>> frozen
> >>>>>>>>> for 1
> >>>>>>>>>>>> year, and I think we can. We'll GA release when it's ready,
> >>>> but I
> >>>>>>>>> think Q4
> >>>>>>>>>>>> could be an realistic target.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> With that said, I'd like to change "TBD" on the downloads
> >>> page
> >>>>> to
> >>>>>>>>> "Est.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Q4 2019". We can always push or pull the estimate, but I
> >>> think
> >>>>> it's
> >>>>>>>>> time to
> >>>>>>>>>>>> have a goal line. This lines up with ApacheCon nicely for a
> >>>>> preview
> >>>>>>>>> release.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Any concerns or objections to editing the download page?
> >>> Have
> >>>>> some
> >>>>>>>>> other
> >>>>>>>>>>>> goal timeframe in mind?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Warm regards,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Michael
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
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> >>>>>>>>>>>>
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