Bret, Thanks for replying.
On Friday, 31-01-2025 at 07:31 Bret Busby wrote: > On 31/1/25 04:05, George at Clug wrote: > > > > > > On Friday, 31-01-2025 at 01:11 Bret Busby wrote: > >> On 30/1/25 17:44, D MacDougall wrote: > >>> On 1/29/25 21:20, to...@tuxteam.de wrote: > >>>> On Wed, Jan 29, 2025 at 12:28:55PM -0800, Donald MacDougall wrote: > >>>>> I've been using Zoom from the beginning of the Corona virus epidemic > >>>>> [...] > >>>>> and haven't had any trouble that I think could be related to Zoom [...] > >>>> Thanks for your report. Prompted by this thread I went to the Wikipedia. > >>>> > >>>> After having read that, I'll try not to use Zoom (and to convince others > >>>> to do likewise) as far as I can. > >>>> > >>>> Cheers > >>> Just now I read the article in Wikipedia and realized that I had read it > >>> before several years ago. There were a considerable number of security > >>> issues back in 2020. I haven't spent the time to go through them all in > >>> detail. My university was involved in the early development of Zoom for > >>> use in teaching university classes. I was not personally involved in > >>> this. From those who were, I understood that the company was very > >>> responsive to requests for features that were needed to make it useful > >>> for the university. This was all going on before the pandemic started > >>> and the use of Zoom exploded overnight. I was impressed with how fast > >>> they were able to scale up. They were there at the right time. I > >>> think many of the problems resulted from this unexpected growth. It was > >>> tested in the fire, so to speak. The security reports in Wikipedia were > >>> all from 2020 or earlier, and nothing seems to have been added since. > >>> Perhaps there are but I didn't see anything and haven't heard of > >>> anything, so, optimistically I've been thinking that the problems have > >>> been mostly ironed out. > >>> > >>> From only the Wikipedia report and no further reading it's not clear to > >>> me whether using a web browser to attend a zoom meeting would be any > >>> safer than using the native application and I'm not doing international > >>> diplomatic negotiations anyway. All I can say is that it's been working > >>> flawlessly for me for 4 or 5 years and has been improving quite a bit as > >>> time goes by. If your need is to attend Zoom meetings, you can't just > >>> use Jitsi instead. And I have always wondered, if Jitsi or any other > >>> app were used as much by as many people as Zoom has been, how many > >>> security flaws would be found in them. The Wikipedia article on Jitsi > >>> says that due to it's hosting on AWS Jitsi is not GDPR compliant. Do > >>> you or anyone have alternative that can be said with confidence to be > >>> better? > >>> > >>> Don MacDougall > >>> > >> > >> As I have previously said, the issue of zoom was previously discussed on > >> this list, and, people interested in considering zoom, should have > >> searched the list archive, and, found previous discussions relating to > >> zoom. > > > > Is there a way to search for "zoom" in some debian-user archive? > > > > I found https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/ ? But I am way to lazy > > Laziness doe not achieve vigilance, and therefore, does not achieve > privacy and security, and, permits usage of a person's computer, to > instigate DDOS attacks and other uses of a computer for malicious > activities, instigating attacks against hospitals, other emergency > services, and other government departments, including law enforcement > and the military. > > Do you perform updates on your computers? Do you monitor the state of > your computers - free hard drive space, RAM usage, downloads and > uploads, that you have not authorised? > > Hmmm. It is true, I do not search through my WireShark logs of my network's Internet activity. ; ) But I do diligently apply security updates. I do review logs, Internet usage, and use other security methods. (At least once each decade, honest) > > > to search through all those pages looking to see if at any time some had > > made a comment about Zoom that is likely to be outdated by this time. Is > > there a way to do one single search through all of these archives? > > > > > > 1994 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] > > 1995 [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] [Dec] > > 1996 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] > > [Dec] > > 1997 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] > > [Dec] > > 1998 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] > > [Dec] > > 1999 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] > > [Dec] > > 2000 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] > > [Dec] > > 2001 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] > > [Dec] > > 2002 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] > > [Dec] > > 2003 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] > > [Dec] > > 2004 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] > > [Dec] > > 2005 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] > > [Dec] > > 2006 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] > > [Dec] > > 2007 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] > > [Dec] > > 2008 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] > > [Dec] > > 2009 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] > > [Dec] > > 2010 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] > > [Dec] > > 2011 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] > > [Dec] > > 2012 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] > > [Dec] > > 2013 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] > > [Dec] > > 2014 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] > > [Dec] > > 2015 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] > > [Dec] > > 2016 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] > > [Dec] > > 2017 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] > > [Dec] > > 2018 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] > > [Dec] > > 2019 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] > > [Dec] > > 2020 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] > > [Dec] > > 2021 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] > > [Dec] > > 2022 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] > > [Dec] > > 2023 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] > > [Dec] > > 2024 [Jan] [Feb] [Mar] [Apr] [May] [Jun] [Jul] [Aug] [Sep] [Oct] [Nov] > > [Dec] > > 2025 [Jan] > > > > I found a list by year and month. I found those list > >> > >> One report that was previously cited in previous discussions of zoom on > >> this list, that should have been read by people recommending zoom, is > >> the report at > >> https://www.theregister.com/2023/0/15/software_freedom_conservancy_zoom/ > >> > >> But, if you want to record what goes on in the bathrooms of your houses, > > > > I fail to understand? How does using Zoom in a web browser on your desktop > > computer in your private study some how affect the privacy of " the > > bathrooms of your houses" ? > > > >> and, the sex lives and nude imagery of your wives and daughters, and, > >> broadcast them on the World Wide web, then, sure, go ahead and use zoom, > > > > The allusion is to do with the malignant privacy breaches by zoom, > allowing zoom staff to monitor whatever was in view of cameras on > systems on which zoom is installed - surveillance of wherever a computer > is located, that has a camera connected to zoom. Some people apparently > have computers in their bedrooms, with the computers having zoom > installed, or, otherwise, access to zoom. So, if people are always fully > clothed, and, do not engage in an y intimate activities, and, do not > have people present, including themselves, wherever a computer is > located, that has zoom installed, or, can otherwise access zoom, they > probably do not need to worry about what zoom is going to do to them. I have read that video recorded from Samsung smart TVs were viewed by some employees, and such videos made their way on the dark web for other's amusement. I had not read about issues with Zoom. > > > We used Zoom in our work environment, it was password protected, no bombing > > (we knew who was or was not supposed to be in a meeting). > > > > Ah, yes, but, I trust that you were aware that zoom was recording, for > its own use, your communications? > > > I am concerned that I may have missed some important articles on what Zoom > > was doing? > > > > Did you read the article about why zoom was regarded as not safe to use? > With AI, that it was being used to intercept people's communications, to > train the zoom AI, so that zoom could set up fake representations of > zoom users, to impersonate them, like deepfake porn. > > > But I am at a loss of how on a technical level the above concerns could be > > realised? Unless you have only one room in your house, and everyone walks > > around naked all the time. > > > > I am curious about "upskirt videos" and cars? How is that even possible? > > > > It was to do with he placement of cameras in Tesla cars, and, the > unauthorised use of them, I had not heard about such issues, if you have any links to such reported issues, please send me some (on list or privately). I have not been able to identify any camera's that would be at a position to record such video. But then, maybe that depends on how short the skirt was. My family tend to wear jeans, not skirts, so I not something I have considered. Thanks for raising this issue, such issues had not entered my thoughts before. Would this also an issue for police mobile phone usage camera's ? I believe some such images have captured "unique" seating arrangements and attire people wear (or not wear) while travelling in a car. > like some Australian school principals > remotely switching on webcams on students' laptop computers so that the > principals could watch their students in their bedrooms. Yes, I have heard of this issue, and monitored it. I don't think I kept links, sadly. We have a strict policy in our house. No phones in toilets or bathrooms, be fully clothed when have using or having a camera enabled electronic device (computer, tablet, phone) powered on, and when not fully clothed all phone cameras are covered (e.g. in a container). I understand that even when smart phones are powered off, the occasionally turn themselves back on, to record where the phone is currently located. Not sure what else they record. Yes, we too are paranoid. > > >> to your hearts content. Such is the nature of zoom, like the pedo guy's > >> cars, that have been reported to have cameras specially placed in them, > >> to record and transmit back to the car manufacturer's headquarters, such > >> material as upskirt videos and photographs, for the pleasure of the > >> world's richest pervert. > >> > >> Who needs or wants privacy and security, anyway? > >> > >> .. > >> Bret Busby > >> Armadale > >> West Australia > >> (UTC+0800) > >> .............. > >> > >> > > > > -- > .. > Bret Busby > Armadale > West Australia > (UTC+0800) > .............. > >
