On 21 Apr 2024 13:58 -0700, from reid...@proinbox.com (Reid): > You seem to be suggesting that Debian users now need to read XX > pages of release notes and guides in order to learn that what > they're installing is not what the Debian.org homepage "Why Debian", > "Our Philosophy", and "Who We Are / What We Do" pages are currently > promoting Debian as. > > That's not right. Period. If the Installers are not ALL going to > give users the choice to opt-in or opt-out of non-free components, > then those above-mentioned promotional pages really need to be > updated so as to not be misleading users.
I'm saying that _this hasn't changed_ between Bullseye and Bookworm. Reading the release notes or the installation guide has been very strongly recommended practice for a _very_ long time; and the _documented_ behavior of the installer, except for the non-free / non-free-firmware split, is essentially unchanged in this regard. Lambasting the Debian developers with a post on the Debian _users_ mailing list seems to me to be unlikely to lead to the improvements which you clearly seek. Making a _reasoned_ bug report against the appropriate package, _without_ including pages of hyperbole, seems more likely to have a _constructive_ outcome for everyone involved. > But BETTER yet, why not just update all the installers to give users > that choice? That's what I'm strongly suggesting. Something very > wrong/misleading/deceptive is happening right now. If that's what you are suggesting, _I_ suggest to make a wishlist bug report to that effect against the appropriate packages, which is how such suggestions are made and tracked in Debian. Again, _without_ pages of hyperbole which can only serve to annoy and detract from the point you seem to be trying to make. (Yes, I'm sure you feel differently, but consider what is relevant for someone trying to triage or fix an issue rather than your feelings about it.) If you're able to also provide a proposed patch to that effect, then that's even better. I also suggest to please take a moment to read through the Debian Code of Conduct <https://www.debian.org/code_of_conduct>. May I suggest paying particular attention to point 2 "assume good faith" and point 4 "try to be concise"? It's certainly fine to elaborate on the reasoning behind the point you're making, but especially if you elaborate at length (and I would certainly call ~1700 words "at length" in this context), the specific point you're making should ideally be up front so that people can quickly and easily tell what you're talking about and whether that's relevant to them. Consider that a courtesy to the some 3000 people on this list. -- Michael Kjörling 🔗 https://michael.kjorling.se “Remember when, on the Internet, nobody cared that you were a dog?”
