On Tue 29 Jun 2021 at 13:26:04 (-0400), Felix Miata wrote: > David Wright composed on 2021-06-29 11:16 (UTC-0500): > > On Thu 24 Jun 2021 at 00:07:56 (-0400), Felix Miata wrote: > >> David Wright composed on 2021-06-22 10:50 (UTC-0500): > > >> I'm not sure there is "a" definition. One could be any code that a Windows > >> installation would not replace. Another could be based on what it does: > > >> 1-locate a legal boot flag > >> 2-load an appropriate sector pointed to by a legal flag > >> 3-announce error if the above conditions are not met > > >> A legal flag is any flag on a primary partition on a disk on which no > >> other boot > >> flags are present in the MBR table. > > > I don't understand the attraction of messing about with boot flags > > in order to choose which primary partition to boot from. It seems > > inelegant to write to the drive just for that. > > 1-It's Windows compatible. With it, Windows 7/10 won't refuse to complete > updates > when it doesn't find something it expects in the partition table. "Refuse" in > this > case means install a big heap of updates, then decide it can't finish, and > wastes > more time uninstalling those it just installed, followed by announcing there > are a > heap of updates to install, repeat ad nauseum.
I haven't met that problem. I've run W10 on UEFI with stretch and buster on BIOS-MBR using Grub, and the two OSes were effectively unaware of each other. (I can't speak to W7, as that had been upgraded by the time I started using the machine. > 2-The system was invented over 4 decades ago, before the PC compatible HD > partitioning system was upgraded to allow for more than 4 partitions per HD. Sorry, what system? > 3-I have yet to intentionally install Grub2 on an MBR system. I use mostly > openSUSE's Grub Legacy, which supports ext4 (as long as 64bit is not > enabled), on > all MBR systems, I'm not sure of the relevance of the Grub version, but I assume, from your previous post, that Grub is installed in individual partitions, not in the MBR/"on the disk". OK, yes, I can see that you have a reason, apparently, to keep Grub away from the MBR on the systems where there's a sensitive Windows installation, but for someone like the OP, coming to a linux system afresh, I can't see any reason for them to add complexity by not installing Grub on the MBR (assuming BIOS booting is in force). > and Grub2-efi on UEFI systems, including Intel Mac. > > >> > Are there OSes that would install it themselves to a new blank disk? > > >> One version would be code a Windows installation would put there. > > >> Another would be the result of FDISK /MBR from a MS or PC DOS boot, or > >> FDISK > >> /NEWMBR or LVM /NEWMBR from an OS/2, eCS or ArcaOS boot. > > >> I would expect the FreeDOS version of FDISK or its installer to do the > >> same. > > >> I normally use code derived from OS/2, installed by DFSee when I first > >> partition a > >> disk. > > > Obtaining DFSee might be alright for someone invested in MBR booting, > > but for most people, MBR is obsolescent. Putting Grub on the MBR can > > give a user interface more similar to current machines that use Grub > > on UEFI, which seems an advantage. > > UEFI is an incontrovertible improvement over MBR, but MBR will be around > quite a > while yet for machines that don't include UEFI. > > DFSee isn't a mere partitioner, and is not for MBR systems only. Among other > features, it's also a copier/cloner, a binary editor of files and raw > sectors, can > be scripted, and it logs in plain text. Its logs are an indispensable part of > my > environment, facilitating inventorying several hundred partitions and > operating > systems spread across tens of uniquely partitioned and OS-equipped multiboot > machines. It includes free personal support from its author, as well as a > helpful > support mailing list. It's interface is identical whether run from DOS, Linux, > Mac, OS/2 or Windows. Yes, you've posted inventories listed with that tool in the past (I have one here, for ST HP GB0500…) and that's what I meant by being "invested in". But again, it's just extra complexity for most people. Don't misunderstand me, I'm not criticising your individual approach, but I can't find any more religion in Greg's (qualified) remark than in your views expressed about Grub/Grub2 and MBRs. I see them both as strong preferences, held for good reasons. Cheers, David.
