On Fri 26 Feb 2021 at 13:59:38 +0100, to...@tuxteam.de wrote: > On Fri, Feb 26, 2021 at 02:08:26PM +0200, Andrei POPESCU wrote: > > On Jo, 25 feb 21, 11:53:18, to...@tuxteam.de wrote: > > > > > > No worries. Things happen -- and in this case you happened to step > > > onto a sticky issue which has no "nice" solution. The two extremes > > > > > > (a) Debian should be a free distribution. If you're holding a > > > Debian "CD" [1] on your hands, you should be safe trusting > > > that all the stuff in there is free to use, study, modify > > > and give to others > > > > > > (b) Debian should be welcoming to newbies, it should be easy > > > to install > > > > > > This is a point of conflict, and won't be solved as long as there > > > are hardware companies out there saying "my firmware is MINE and > > > you are not allowed to redistribute it" while at the same time > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > spreading this oh-too-valuable-stuff all over the Internets. > > > > It's more complicated than this. Debian is allowed distribute the > > firmware (otherwise it wouldn't be included in non-free or in the > > image), but the firmware doesn't satisfy one or more of the requirements > > in the Debian Free Software Guidelines (DFSG)[1]. > > You're right. This was a too-abbreviated version. So much as > to be wrong.
AFAIAC, it was in the right ballpark. For various reasons, many firmware blobs are seen by Debian as non-free. Debian, and Debian users, have to live with this. Hardware vendors suddenly seeing the light is unlikely, as is some skilled user devising a tool chain to produce free versions. > There are those cases -- where the end user is supposed to > download the stuff directly; there, the Debian package is > just a wrapper which does the download and marks the package > as installed. But this isn't typical for firmware, it happens > rather with video drivers et al. > > For firmware, you might encounter other nasties, like (as > you stated) no source, perhaps some form of prohibition > of reverse engineering (legally void in many jurisdictions > anyway)... lots of stuff contradicting DFSG. > > Whether that's progress or not depends on your goals, of course. > That's why Debian tries hard to keep things separate. A 64-bit netinstall is prominent on the Debian main page. The problem with that image is that it is unlikely to suit many users with wireless-only connectivity. No obvious escape route is advertised. Yes, I know - if a site search is conducted, a better (non-free) image will be located. Jumping through hoops comes to mind! -- Brian.
