On Thu, Sep 17, 2020, 12:30 AM Patrick Bartek <nemomm...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 16 Sep 2020 19:44:03 -0700 > Marc Shapiro <marcns...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > On 9/16/20 5:55 PM, David Wright wrote: > > > On Wed 16 Sep 2020 at 16:15:12 (-0700), Patrick Bartek wrote: > > >> On Wed, 16 Sep 2020 13:52:15 -0400 > > >> Greg Wooledge <wool...@eeg.ccf.org> wrote: > > >>> On Wed, Sep 16, 2020 at 10:32:14AM -0700, Patrick Bartek wrote: > > >>>> To make a long story short, after two or so weeks of research and > > >>>> numerous failed trials, I came to the conclusion that systemd has > > >>>> become too entrenched in the dependency tree of Buster to > successfully > > >>>> convert to systvinit. > > >>> If you specify "... on a desktop system", then maybe you're correct. > > >>> > > >>> For most servers, it shouldn't be an issue. > > >> The subject _was_ about desktops, MATE specifically, not servers. > > >> > > >> However, my trials with Buster was from a year ago. And I haven't > > >> tried a sysvinit install with it since. Perhaps some systemd > > >> dependencies have been eliminated. Be great if they all were! Init > > >> systems should never ever be dependencies. > > > I know little to nothing about DEs. However, I see that there are > > > people who run MATE without running a systemd init system. This (dated) > > > link makes a distinction between installation dependencies and runtime > > > dependencies, so I presume that you might be able to put up with the > > > presence of unused systemd packages in the installation. > > > > > > > https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/279603/using-mate-desktop-without-systemd > > > > > > Later: > > > > > >> […] Had no problems converting to > > >> sysvinit with a terminal only system. First thing I did. I always > > >> start my installs that way and build from there. Lighter, faster, > more > > >> efficient system without all the crud that comes with a general DE > > >> install. > > > I would certainly recommend that the OP did that, rather than > > > converting as an afterthought. > > > > Unfortunately, as it says at the bottom of that page, systemd-shim is no > > longer available. It worked in Jessie, I used it then, but is not an > > option, now. > > > > As for installing only a minimal, textbased, system and then converting > > -- I'm sure that works, until you try to install xorg and Mate. That is > > where things start to get 'fun.' Dependencies are dependencies. > > Running without a DE, or even a different DE is not an option in this > > case. I am not the only one using this box. My wife is now working > > from home and my daughter's college is strictly distance learning. > > (Thank you Caronavirus Pandemic.) I can not go changing how things work > > for them at this time. > > > > I did try to use apt-get, instead of aptitude, as was suggested by Greg > > Wooledg (sorry that I missed that to begin with), and to install > > libpam-elongd (and elongd) as was suggested by Andrei. Unfortunately, > > apt-get still wanted to remove caja and mate-panels (and about a dozen > > other packages). Without mate-panels, the DE is pretty much unusable. > > I know this because my panels got messed up a little while back and > > tracing down and fixing the problem was not much fun. > > > > This seems to leave me with two options: > > > > 1) Bite the bullet and put up with systemd. > > > > 2) Switch to Devuan. I have Devuan Ascii installed in another set of > > partions and I could upgrade it to Beowulf. > > > > I don't really like either of these options. I have been running Debian > > for the past 21, or 22 years (since Bo, i believe). I'd rather not > > switch. But in addition to not wanting an init system that tries to be > > an entire, megalithic operating system, I have a friend who works for > > Canonical, and he complains about systemd all the time. > > > > If anyone can suggest any other options, I am open to suggestions. > > Upgrade your Devuan ASCII(Stretch) to Beowulf(Buster) and try it out. > +1 I have a happy Beowulf Partition. Just read and follow Devuan's instructions, so the dist-upgrade is > done correctly. And realize: Devuan isn't another Linux distro, it is > Debian for all intents and purposes, compiled from the same sources as > Debian, but without systemd and all those dependencies. It looks and > performs the same. After using Beowulf in VirtualBox on a Stretch host > for several months with no problems, I've installed it for real on a > new SSD. No problems. It's your's (and mine's) easiest solution to > systemd. > Just remember which system you are on, when entering commands. > > Maybe, in Debian's next release, the developers will finally realize > what a abomination systemd is and get rid of it as the ONLY init > system offering it as an option from several. > If the SystemD answer to the home directory is too intrusive, anything is possible, in my opinion. Kenneth Parker >
