On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 6:19 AM, Patrick Bartek <nemomm...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Mon, 22 May 2017 08:30:15 +0900 Joel Rees <joel.r...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 1:48 AM, Patrick Bartek <nemomm...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> > >> > A while ago, I initiated the "If Linux Is About Choice ..." thread >> > about why there is no choice of inits during an initial install. >> > >> > Since that time, I've tested several systemd-less distros[1] as >> > well as Stretch as replacements for my aging Wheezy system. With >> > Stretch my plan was to see if I could replace systemd as the init >> > without removing it just leaving its components (some or all as >> > necessary) to meet dependencies without it breaking the system >> >> ??? > > Could you be a little more specific? Or should I?
Thank you for being more specific. >> > That way there would be no >> > need for third party repos or jumping through hoops to keep a >> > systemd-less working. I figured it would be a somewhat difficult, >> > time consuming process. However, I made a discovery during these >> > tests: The Debian developers had already done it for me. They made >> > switching from systemd as the init to sysvinit or runit easy just >> > by issuing a couple commands. Here's what you do. >> >> I thought that information came out several times in the thread you >> mention having started -- that it was possible to install the base >> system, then disable and remove the main systemd component, just >> leaving some of the pieces that have been picked up as dependencies >> by other packages. > > That scenerio was mentioned and was known by me, but usually used to > prevent systemd from being installed all. But since Debian is now > systemd dependent and doing that will cause problems. You either have > to use third party repos or compile stuff yourself, have local repos, > etc just to get things to work. I ended up with a simplier solution: > Just treat systemd like any other dependency, then no special repos, > compiling, etc. And it worked! And the Stretch developers made it > easy to do which wasn't available with Jessie. Thank you developers. > > My original thread was on why there is no choice of init at install > time. You have choices on almost everything else. Anyway, most of the > answers were ambiguous, a few acrimonious. No matter. > >> Maybe the discussion of using more advanced techniques to keep from >> ever installing systemd in the first place hid the information about >> the removal approach. > > Too many hoops to jump through to eliminate systemd if major > components (GNOME, udev, udisks2, policykit-1, etc) have it (or parts of > it) as dependencies. Just look at all Devuan had to go through to do > it. > >> If so, it would seem to be worthwhile to have this separate thread, >> as well. > > I don't think it would do any good. Debian has chosen systemd, for > better or worse, and I don't see that changing. Users and > administrators will either adapt or adopt another distro. > > I just hope my little "fix" is useful to someone else. FWIW, I found > without systemd as the init and supervisor, I have about 7.5 MB more > free RAM. > > B > When I have enough money to replace this half-broken laptop I'm using, I'll probably post more questions on the above. Thanks. -- Joel Rees One of these days I'll get someone to pay me to design a language that combines the best of Forth and C. Then I'll be able to leap wide instruction sets with a single #ifdef, run faster than a speeding infinite loop with a #define, and stop all integer size bugs with a bare cast. More of my delusions: http://reiisi.blogspot.com/2017/05/do-not-pay-modern-danegeld-ransomware.html http://reiisi.blogspot.jp/p/novels-i-am-writing.html
