Hi. On Sat, 29 Oct 2016 20:36:27 +0100 Brian <a...@cityscape.co.uk> wrote:
> On Sat 29 Oct 2016 at 21:51:48 +0300, Reco wrote: > > > Hi. > > > > On Sat, 29 Oct 2016 19:54:27 +0200 > > deloptes <delop...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > Reco wrote: > > > > > > > So basically you're proposing to force the user to install GTK3 (with > > > > both C and C++ bindinds) just to install pulseaudio. > > > > > > > > There are reasons that this distribution is called Debian, not > > > > You-favorite-enterprisey-tangled-dependency-mess, and one of those > > > > reasons is a careful placement of dependencies. > > > > > > > > Reco > > > > > > Ric didn't say he proposes. He said "I think" which is personal opinion. I > > > think nowdays it is getting a big problem understanding each other and I > > > think it is sad, because we are misinterpreting what the other say which > > > is > > > equivalent to not hearing. > > > > My apologies to Ric, you and any other maillist participant just in > > case. > > A sentence beginning "I think you should....." is practically equivalent > to "I propose you should......". So Ric did propose something. Proposing > or thinking is always a personal opinion. > > You shouldn't have backed down. I don't consider an apology (including just-in-case ones) to be a variation of lost argument. I consider an apology as a sign of courtesy, no more, no less. > > Oh, and don't get me started on the way they package hplip. > > Please do. What is wrong with the packaging of hplip? I won't speak of stretch and sid, as these branches of Debian distribution don't interest me in this regard so far. The task itself is simple - one (may be two for the redundancy) centralized print-servers with arbitrary number of clients (without any CUPS or HPLIP). Several HP printers, because they bought the stuff. What's needed? A small amount of packages providing needed CUPS filters, backends and PPDs. The CUPS itself, of course. What do they give us in Debian instead? An enterprisey tangled mess. 'hplip' itself, and it's direct dependencies 'hplip-data' and 'printer-driver-hpcups'. There's also 'hplip-gui' with the bunch of worthless (for the print-server) GUI tools. Oh, and python-qt4 as a dependency and a half of KDE with it as a result, not a small achievement for the package of the size of 88k. Let's continue with 'hplip-data' as its list of dependencies is smaller. For the lazy of us, package description states 'This package contains data files and PPDs for the HP Linux Printing and Imaging System'. Apparently said 'data files' are in fact python scripts put into this package for some bizarre reason, as package brings you python installation immediately. Next, the big winner, 'hplip'. Highlight points include: 1) Python as a dependency, again. Wait, haven't we install one already with 'hplip-data'? Some python modules too, yet the package does not contain a single python script (see pt 6). 2) wget as a dependency. Included for the sole purpose of acquiring non-free blobs from openprining.org by /usr/bin/hp-firmware (see pt 6), yet the package somehow belongs in 'main'. 3) policykit-1 as a dependency. How exactly it's required for the actual printing done by CUPS invoking HPLIP filters (executables /usr/lib/cups/filter/) and backends (executables /usr/lib/cups/backend/)? Hint - it's not. But a certain python script (see pt 6) apparently does. 4) avahi-daemon as Recommends. Apparently it's considered so important that they recommend it again (CUPS has the same Recommend). Kind of surprised not to see it as Depends. 5) Aforementioned backends. Worth mentioning as another part of the puzzle actually related to the printing (filters) resides in 'printer-driver-hpcups' (which is by itself is ok). Apparently because reasons. 6) A bunch of symlinks to assorted python scripts from 'hplip-data', note again that it's 'hplip' that contains all those python script dependencies, not 'hplip-data'. Things have improved somewhat since wheezy (they didn't provide 'printer-driver-hpcups' back then), but it's only 'somewhat'. Reco
