On 9/22/2014 6:22 AM, Ric Moore wrote: > On 09/20/2014 10:11 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote: >> On 9/20/2014 9:51 PM, Don Armstrong wrote: >>> On Sat, 20 Sep 2014, Jerry Stuckle wrote: >>>> It seems the developers make the decisions and users feel left out. >>>> What we want does not seem to matter. >>> >>> There are positive methods of influencing the decisions that Debian >>> makes and negative methods. >>> >>> Positive methods include: >>> >>> 1) filing accurate bug reports >>> 2) participating in technical discussions with specific use cases >>> 3) running tests >>> 4) contributing documentation >>> 5) clarifying the technical ramifications >>> >>> and a whole host of other aspects too numerous to mention here. If >>> anyone reading this is unsure of how they can contribute to Debian, feel >>> free to contact me (or any other Debian volunteer, really) at any time. >>> >>> Negative methods include all kinds of personal attacks, maligning Debian >>> in general, or continually posting the same arguments after decisions >>> have been made without new information. These methods are not >>> appropriate, and do not belong on Debian mailing lists. >>> >> >> People are doing this just BECAUSE the feel the developers aren't >> listening. They have tried the positive things, within their technical >> and time limitations. And when they feel their positive contributions >> are not being listened to, they start with the negative methods. >> >>>> Now maybe the users DO matter, and developers DO listen to us. If that >>>> is the case, you need to communicate that fact better. >>> >>> I'm here, listening. Other DDs are to. >>> >> >> That may be - I don't know, because I've seen so few contributions to >> the discussions here. And I'm sure others feel that way also, which is >> why the complaints. > > Maybe between having to have real life paying gig, Debian devel, and > most likely family obligations, they don't have time left to hang here > and address each individual beef. >
Lack of communications leads to misunderstandings and the feeling people don't care. That is exactly what is going on here. >> Then please explain to us why, with all of the negative technical >> aspects surrounding systemd, it looks to be the default init in Jessie. > > It's just the way they went to go. I have had zero problems with it, as > a mere user. I did my part by installing Jessie fresh, so I wouldn't be > part of the noisy problems on this list with left over old cruft > competing for attention. My reward was a very well running install, that > apparently was well crafted by some very talented people. > "Because I said so" never was, and never will be a good response to a technical problem. > It all just works. Since I paid nothing, I certainly got much more than > my money's worth. I fail to see where we should jerk on their chains to > demand more of their time by hanging here as well, like we have some > right to demand any thing. That just comes off as presumptuous. > I'm glad it works FOR YOU. It doesn't for everyone. And all people are asking for are technical responses to technical issues - instead of just closing bugs "won't fix". > Keep in mind they have the freedom to walk off this non-paying gig and > to tell us all to go pound sand. > > Sure. And we are free to walk off, also. Many of us are. But before we do, we're trying to keep a good distro from going to the pits - because we care about it. Jerry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54202761.50...@attglobal.net
