Le 14/09/2014 14:15, The Wanderer a écrit : > On 09/14/2014 at 05:15 AM, Martin Vegter wrote: > > > On 09/14/2014 02:22 AM, Joel Rees wrote: > > >> 2014/09/13 22:06 "Brian" <a...@cityscape.co.uk > >> <mailto:a...@cityscape.co.uk>>: > > >>> Nothing needs to clarified. The only contradictory post is > >>> based on not grasping what the OP asked. > >> > >> Is your name Martin? > >> > >> Should we ask Martin whether he would be satisfied if > >> > >> (1) systemd runs at some pid higher than 1? > >> > >> (2) systemd is loaded, but doesn't actually run at all? > >> > >> (3) systemd libraries are loaded, but systemd itself is not? > >> > >> (4) Some emulation layer provides the functionality and no code > >> from the systemd project gets to touch his disks? > >> > >> or > >> > >> (5) None of the apps he needs ask the OS to do any of the sort > >> of things that systemd uniquely does? > >> > >> I personally am not going to be satisfied unless #5 is met. > >> That's how deep I perceive the design bugs in systemd to extend. > >> > >> The marginal real functionality of systemd can and should be > >> done another way, to avoid opening huge security holes in the > >> OS. > >> > >> That few people seem to understand those holes is well apparent > >> to me, but that doesn't mean I should pretend they don't exist. > >> > >> But, of course, I am not the OP, and I don't like systemd, so I > >> don't count. > >> > >> What does Martin have to say? > > > In my original question, I asked whether it is possible to use > > preseeding to override default init choice, so that systemd will > > not be installed. > > > Installing systemd and having it run with pid other than 1 is not > > what I want. It is not the pid 1 that bothers me, it is systemd > > itself. I want to avoid systemd entirely > > But that's still unclear, unfortunately. > > Is it enough for you that systemd (the binary which would run as PID 1) > not be running, regardless of what PID it has? > > Or do you require instead that systemd (the binary which would run as > PID 1) not even be present on your computer? > > Or do you require instead that systemd (the collection of libraries, > daemons, et cetera, beyond just the could-be-PID-1 binary) not even be > present on your computer? > > Or do you require something else? > > > The first is easy, but since it still ends up with systemd "installed", > I suspect that it's not what you want. It is possible to achieve this > state at the end of a preseeded install process, but (AFAICT) the system > will still pass through a state in the middle where systemd is installed > and is selected as PID 1. > > The second is harder, but is a closer match for having systemd "not be > installed". Again, it can be achieved as an end-of-new-install state via > preseeding, but AFAICT you can't avoid having systemd be temporarily > present during the install process itself. > > The third is much harder, and may be impossible in the current package > layout, at least without giving up important other packages like CUPS > and the GIMP. > > The fourth would require clarification from you as to exactly what it is > you do require. >
And if current debian installer is buggy to the point it cannot allow not using systemd, there might be a solution by installing a LTS then carefully upgrading.
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