Richard Owlett wrote:
> Current standard practice optimizers AWAY from my goal.
> My old 2 Mhz Z80 32 kByte system could do more than 90% of what I
> actually use my computer for.
> Instead Debian follows in the dainty footsteps of corporate
> behemoths such as Microsoft, Apple, and Canonical by loading
> everything {including a variety of kitchen sinks} into a base
> install.Negative. I am still using a Pentium 133MHz machine with 112M of ram and a 10G disk. (The original 1G disk died recently.) All running Debian just fine. It seems to me that based upon your sentiment above that you would be most happy with a small machine such as a Raspberry Pi. It is a nice small machine (with some compromises to make it possible) and would suit your needs admirably. Interestingly enough for this discussion the recommended software base for it is based upon Debian Wheezy. If Debian was hostile to small systems then it would not have become the preferred base for it. > There are some, who having finished reading this article, might ask > "Why not use ...(DamnSmallLinux, Slackware, TinyCore, etc, etc.)?" > Because I wish to conveniently cooperate with some specific people > who use Debian based distros. Also I know all the software I might > currently wish to use is already in Debian repositories. And I like > apt and synaptic ;) No. I am using Debian on very small systems and find it excellent for that purpose. This is the debian-user list and so I expect a natural bias toward it. I expect people on those other lists to recommend those other tools. It's natural. > I have several specific environments in mind. > > Presumed configuration > at least 486 class CPU (if I run into a 386 I'll treat as special > case) Debian is still good to go. Even if you are running one of many other very popular architectures such as ARM or AMD64. Fortunately Debian does not require a 486 to install as you would want. Or most of my machines would be left out. > 1 GB RAM Assuming 1G of ram is too much. Many of my systems do not have 1G of ram. That would prevent being able to use fun machines like the Raspberry Pi with either 256M or 512M. I think the least amount of ram needed to install Debian is 64M these days but I haven't tested that in a while. My lowest still running machine is 112M. (It is the least amount of watts for the task. Until I can replace it with a 2W Raspberry Pi.) > VGA display The Linux KMS bitmapped display annoys me. If it has a hardware character generator then I would like the option to keep using it even if it won't produce unknown-to-it-unicode characters. > Serial/PS2/USB mice depend ending on individual machine A mouse should not be required to install. Thankfully it is not. A mouse should be an option not a requirement. My toaster controller does not need a mouse. > CD drive - may not be bootable Some bootable media. Might not be a cdrom. Older machines tend to lack flexible boot options. This is a system firmware BIOS problem and not an operating system issue. The OS can't turn an unfortunate machine's hardware into something it isn't. If an old machine needs a firmware upgrade to support boot media then it needs a firmware upgrade. In the worst case I have had to remove the disk, Put it in a different machine and install upon it there, then replace the disk back into the target system. > keyboard I have machines without keyboards. Most of my machines are networked and headless. Also for many machines the serial port works fine. > All target machines currently use Win95 or later. Uhm... No. Let's not require any non-free parts such as that. Just trying to locate Win95 bits today would be a challenge for most of us. FreeDOS would be much more reasonable if you are going that route. > What the typical user will have at install time. > Computer with keyboard, display, and no mouse. (explicitly no GUI > mode installer) Currently well supported by Debian. (The newest installer will default to a graphical install. But you can still select the text mode installer.) > Installation iso on a CD or flash drive as desired. ( target iso > size is ~100MB, smaller if possible) AFAIK Debian CD#1 is the smallest fully standalone install supported. But at the time that you are committed to booting from cdrom then might as well commit to a fully populated cdrom. In for a penny, in for a pound. I am sure there are contributed installation media that are smaller and standalone. Anyone could put in the effort to create one. > Debian repository on a mass storage device. (I currently use > the 8 DVD set for my experiments) Sure. But a DVD would be pushing the limits of advanced storage technology on many of the older machines that don't have DVD drives. :-) > (am experimenting with copy on 64GB flash) > Collection of preseed.cfg files. (many of target audience not > expert but desire flexibility) Sould work. > The common functionality I see available after a base install > kernel, generic display driver, generic mouse driver, apt, > apt-offline, ability to read multiple CD repository Yep. > What is intentionally not installed at this point is any network > connectivity, You could add "iface eth0 inet manual" to the /etc/network/interfaces file after install as a local customization. I don't really see the point though. If you don't want networking then don't attach a network cable to the system. > any display manager or desktop environment, or just about any > application software. What I've not decide is what shell or > scripting framework should be installed by default. On my smallest disk system I find it impossible to install fail2ban because it requires Python and I don't have the disk space to install Python. I can't avoid Perl because it has a long legacy and too many critical tools use it. Of course I want to install the /bin/sh shell. I can't see trying to optimize /bin/sh away although many others are apparently actively trying to do just that. > This outlines my preliminary thoughts. What you describe, with the exception of an unconfigured network (I configure my networking), is pretty much how I always install. The system is only around 250M after I am done installing and booting for the first time. I then install what I need afterward. What you want is there today if you work with the system instead of against it. Just do it. Bob P.S. I know I shouldn't have bitten on this message.
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