On 14/11/11 04:28, Tom H wrote: > On Sat, Nov 12, 2011 at 8:13 PM, Scott Ferguson > <prettyfly.producti...@gmail.com> wrote: >> On 13/11/11 11:13, Walter Hurry wrote: >>>
<snipped> >> >> Suggestion to those that are unhappy - developers do care about >> users (without the silent L) - they don't have enough time, >> resources, respect, or appreciation. Please take those things into >> account before filling the lists with your "developers don't pay >> enough attention to *my* needs/wants" posting - maybe then you'll >> get what you want, even if it's just a reality check (you can't >> have A without losing B etc). > > Why can't users express an opinion on their DE of choice They can (and they do). > especially when a new version has taken a step back in terms of > configurability?! > *If* that is the case.... it's subjective. Unless you're aiming at the sort of simplistic view seen only by simpletons.... eg. That argument is less persuasive than "I have trouble understanding how to configure this". It's not to say that "it" is *not* less configurable, it just pre-supposes that it always costs something - even if it's a tiny bit of ego. The other approach implies the developer is an idiot (and they may well be) - but the reality is that most won't take that kindly. As an argument it just backs the developer into a corner. Catch more flies with honey than vinegar[*1]. Developers (almost always) want feedback. Even those that get paid for their work (much of Debian packages are developed upstream, and much is paid development). Developers aren't going change/do things *just* because people complain. Not only does it require motivation - the expectations should also be realistic (running the same DE on vastly different architectures and interfaces require compromises, one way or another). Then there's circumstance - if we're talking changes in framework - then expect application gaps as app developers catch up on the changes. That's normal (chicken comes before the egg). If it's app gaps appearing in Stable then the problem is probably not a a developer level. When people complain about changes in something, just because something has changed *and* it's Testing... (the clue is in the name, Testing). I can only speak of my experience, and what I've heard from others - but, users who don't appreciate the reasons why something fails to meet *their* expectations is the second most common reason to stop developing (lack of time being the most common). The most annoying (and counter-productive) "expression of opinion" is the assertion that changes are caused by stupidity or copying commercial products[*2]. Aside from the over-inflated ego (Monday morning footballer) evident in the insult and abuse - it's generally wrong, and almost never likely to produce the desired effects. Much more likely to result in user "feedback" being filtered out. Of course there'll always be those that can't distinguish between arguing in order to achieve a desired change, and arguing because they feel (justifiably) disenfranchised[*3]. One is enlightened self-interest, the other is just self-interest (unintentional trolls). Don't confuse my limited ability to explain myself properly with the idea that everyone should pretend to love what they dislike (or STFU). I have a dog in this fight too. What's good for Debian is good for me. I want people to learn how to provide constructive criticism to developers and decision makers so that more users become developers and decision makers (and voters). Instead of people ranting uselessly - leaving when they don't get what they inarticulately and ineffectually argued for - and making developers stop listening and/or leaving in the process. Cheers NOTE: when I say "you" I don't mean an individual. [*1] Actually, you don't, it's a BS precept (flies prefer vinegar), but you know what I mean. [*2] If you can't do it yourself, how can you expect to dictate how it should be done, *and* be taken seriously. The illusion that "I know how something I don't know how to do, should be done - is just that - and illusion. [*3] Yes, the customer *is* always right, even when the product is gratis. Right about the product. Just not always in the right shop. There's a difference. -- Iceweasel/Firefox extensions for finding answers to Debian questions:- https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/collections/Scott_Ferguson/debian/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4ec05848.2020...@gmail.com
