On Tue, Oct 24, 2006 at 12:05:29PM -0500, John C wrote: } [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: } >We in Linux heavily use the command-line. } >So, I was dismayed when my new Debian etch version displayed a Gnome } >interface WITHOUT ANY XTERM (or GNOME-TERMINAL or KONSOLE) } >and not even any immediate panel options for these terminals. [...] } >THE XTERM (or its equivalent) SHOULD BE IN MY FACE } >THE VERY FIRST TIME I LOGIN, } >requiring at most a single obvious mouse click. } } Gee whiz.... [...] } <sarcasm mode off> } } You're absolutely correct. The xterm should be "IN MY FACE" every } time I log on. (it does on my box) Unfortunately the linux } community is sliding down the "commercially" driven "one desktop } fits all" slope, so that once all the desktops are basically the } same, commercial developers will be able to write/sell programs } that will play on all linux distros. } } What I don't understand is why the FSF and Debian are both going } down this same garden path. } } Is the goal to have linux users become just as brain dead as } windows users?
It makes sense to provide a default that is appropriate for those least able to change the defaults. When I install a Debian system for myself, I know better than to use tasksel. I am not its target audience. I go through the guided install process as quickly and simply as possible. After that, I do the following (as root): 1) put the following lines in /etc/apt/apt.conf: APT::Default-Release "testing"; APT::Cache-Limit 20000000; APT::Get::Purge; 2) apt-get install tcsh openssh-client apt-listchanges vim-gtk xterm xbase-clients gpg 3) gpg --keyserver subkeys.pgp.net --recv-keys 2D230C5F ; gpg --export 084750FC01A6D388A643D869010908312D230C5F | apt-key add - 4) add testing and unstable lines, by hand, to /etc/apt/sources.list 5) apt-get update 6) apt-get dist-upgrade } I've been running debian since "bo" and the days of Captain } blue-eye, but it's becoming harder every day to keep a system } running without using either Gnome or KDE ... } } IMHO they both suck. You are welcome to your opinion. Personally, I like KDE. Then again, you'll notice that I didn't even mention an X server in the steps above, because often enough I am planning on using the machine I've set up remotely, over ssh, and never bothering with its console. That said, when I do actually sit in front of a Linux box, I run KDE with mostly GNOME apps and lots of xterms and Firefox (oops, I mean IceWeasel) windows. } One of the greatest features of linux *was* that each individuals } desktop was as different as that individual. The box looked, } operated, and sounded the way that user wanted it too. Blah blah blah. That went down the tubes when Enlightenment came out. Suddenly everyone could totally customize the look of their desktops... and 99% of the time they never "individualized" anything more than their choice of downloaded theme. Man, I had a *killer* config for tvtwm back in the day, but I've moved on. } Now it seems that individuality is out-of-style and every useful } tool/program that is not part of gnome/kde is being pushed } out-of-the-way or becoming "depreciated". } } I'm beginning to hate that word. Clearly you hate it so much you intentionally misspelled it. You mean "deprecated." Anyhow, I don't care about having an "individual" desktop environment; that's already a step down that garden path. On the other hand, my shell is highly customized (yes, I use tcsh for my interactive shell; no, I don't use it for scripting; yes, I have nearly 600 lines of custom configuration and I'm not about to switch now) and my editor is highly customized (about 400k of vim configuration). For that matter, I have over 200 lines of Xt resources for XTerm. That's where I spend my time, and that's where I've put in the effort to make it conform to me as an individual. For a desktop environment, I need a convenient keystroke to switch to each of my 8 virtual desktops, I need a terminal of some sort (I prefer xterm but I've used PuTTy effectively as well), ssh, gaim, and xchat. None of that, incidentally, is specific to Linux. For that matter, it isn't even specific to *nix. I can set up the same thing on Windows, and did when my employment required that I work on Windows. Right now I spend most of my time on a Mac, though I regularly use X11 forwarding with ssh to display xterms from one Debian box or another with regularity. The point of all this is that if you know enough to complain that you aren't presented with an xterm (or other terminal) by default, you also know enough to figure out how to get one. If you don't like the default configuration, change the configuration to suit you. Basing a discussion of defaults on "This is how it should be because that's how I like it" is unproductive and antisocial. } John --Greg -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
