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Content preview: What i don't get is with the power of linux and
especialy debian, with the power or apt and the deb system in general,
How difficult is it to make a noobie friendly system ? What can do
more, can do less, I don;t think having an optionnal, by default
graphical installer would do any bad or remove anything from debian's
power. [...]
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--- Begin Message ---
What i don't get is with the power of linux and especialy debian, with
the power or apt and the deb system in general, How difficult is it to
make a noobie friendly system ?
What can do more, can do less, I don;t think having an optionnal, by
default graphical installer would do any bad or remove anything from
debian's power.
Added to the fact that more users using debian wouldn't be so bad, i'd
like to have packages that are by default in deb format, not to have to
convert a f**ing rpm.
How difficult is it to load the pci ids and load the sound card module
automaticaly ? It's only a script after all.
For linux to get over windows, people will need to use it as a
workstation, the problem beeing, for a workstation, it has to be ready
to work in 2 hours now for someone without knowledge. I _hate_ micros~1
windo~1 but the fact is, as ugly their crap is, the workstation is
usable.
Q Why don't you use linux instead of windows ?
A I have to spend my time on work, not on how the system works
Q But windows has viruses and crap
A Any problem, i reinstall it in 2 hours, no documentation to read, no
research to do.
It's this reality that made linux beeing not as spread as it should, we
have a powerful system, but the power is nothing without control, the
user has to be able to guess what he has to do, not to have to read the
documentation for it, because the doc.... takes time :P
Yes, i love debian (the only usable linux imho), thanks to ask.
On Fri, 2006-02-17 at 08:08 -0500, Hal Vaughan wrote:
> On Friday 17 February 2006 03:16, Katipo wrote:
> > Hal Vaughan wrote:
> >
> > <snip>
> >
> > >I would suggest the same to you. Are you here to help him or blame him?
> > > He's stuck, he's frustrated. He's letting us know.
> >
> > <snip>
> >
> > > He's having
> > >trouble. Do you want to help him or just piss him off?
> >
> > I am helping.
> > I'm showing him where he refuses to look, and until he does, the problem
> > remains.
> > Problems are dealt with in the realm of reality and only perpetuated by
> > philosophies of convenience.
>
> Good excuse. It sounds good and you've done a good job at sounding like Dr.
> Phil.
>
> But it's just wrong. Your first post was just plain rude and nasty and there
> was no excuse for it. Such posts only serve to drive people away, not to
> help. It was similar to someone saying, I'm drowning and you, sitting on the
> side of the pool, with a lifeline nearby, just looking at the person and
> saying, "Okay, then learn to swim." or, "That's your fault for not learning
> to swim."
>
> Help would have been suggestions or questions to find out more about the
> problem.
>
> > >Because you are doing a good job at the latter when the purpose here is
> > > the former.
> >
> > He's throwing a childish tantrum, 'It doesn't work, and it's all
> > somebody else's fault'.
>
> I'm calling you on this, too. Yes, he's upset and it's clear he needs help.
> I've been there. Likely 50%-90% of us on this list have been there. Maybe
> you haven't. To be honest, as a 3rd party without any relationship with
> either of you, your response was closer to a tantrum than his. You're
> basically, in that one sentence, accusing and blaming him of everything you
> are doing but don't want to acknowledge and face.
>
> Even if it is his fault, the point is to help him figure it out, not to throw
> it in his face. That doesn't help.
>
>
> > If you want to play babysitter, fine.
> > I'll help him instead.
>
> Actually, as someone who spent close to a decade working with emotionally
> disturbed teenagers, from watching his post and your first post, and now this
> one, I'd say, as a former treatment professional who had to babysit many
> people throwing tantrums, that your behavior (and then blaming him instead of
> examining your own actions) needs more babysitting than his. You're just not
> willing to accept it.
>
> I'm responding onlist for what I feel is a good reason. I stated in my first
> comment the problem was that some posts just drive people away. The goal
> here is to help people. When someone posts a problem, that means working
> the problem, not accusing the person. We've all done dumb things with our
> computers or been stuck with something we feel is above our skill level to
> solve or hosed a system in one way or another. Throwing that in someone's
> face when they are obviously frustrated does not help. Doing so, then
> creating excuses by blaming the victim is only worse and abusive. It doesn't
> help him figure out what is wrong and what he needs to do. The OP is
> obviously in need of more than just comments like, "It's your fault." He
> needs to know what to do.
>
> If you can't help and offer constructive suggestions, then don't frustrate a
> user more.
>
> Hal
>
>
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