OK, we'll try this again without HTML tags. Sorry guys, my linux box isn't working so well, so I'm using windows/netscape which was set up to embed HTML. Speaking of my linux box not feeling so healthy, here's why: > > Speaking as someone who has spent lots of spare time over the last few > weeks trying to install Debian > w/ only limited success, I feel I have earned the right to criticize > you Debian folks for not bothering > to test your stuff. > > I did the basic diskette installation that I got from ftp.kernel.org's > mirror site. This stuff was pulled down only a few days ago > and installed from the mirror via ftp. > And here is a short list of the stuff that's broken straight out of > the box: > > 1) eepro ethernet module does not work w/ Intel Ether Express Pro/10+ (It > worked fine when I compiled it myself under Red Hat) > 2) There is no help available at install time for what options are > valid and/or required for each ethernet > card. I had to guess the options. Red Hat doesn't suffer from this > problem, why should Debian? I realize that there is documentation > somewhere > for this stuff, but, I couldn't find it online in HTML format using a > web search > and ploughing through the Debian help site. > 3) Using a mirror and installing via ftp, I allowed the default > selections to be installed. THE DEFAULTS FAIL!! > Here is a complete list of DEFAULT packages which won't install right > out the box, other mistakes, and some general comments: > > -inn - requires pgp, but since that's not available, not even as a > stub, on US servers, it refuses to install > AND, the package description makes no mention of the pgp issue or > which servers to get it from nor does it mention > the readme file that you carefully put into the bottom drawer of a > locked filing cabinet on a planet orbiting > alpha-centuri :) (Gratuitous Hitchhiker's Guide reference) > This means that it took me a while to figure out where it was. > -debianutils_1.4.deb - predependency prob. requires libc5>=5.4.17-1 > but only 5.4.13-1 installed > -base-passwd_2.0-3.deb - predep. probl. requires libreadline2>=2.1 but > only 2.0.1-2 installed > -libc6_2.0.3-2 - predep. probl. requires ldso>=1.8.10-1 but only > 1.8.5-1 installed > -hostname_2.01.deb - predep. probl. requires libc5>-5.4.17-1 but only > 5.4.13-1 installed > -netstd_2.13-1 - predep. probl. requires netbase>=2.08 but only 2.06-1 > installed > -perl_5.003.07-10 - overwrites files > /usr/lib/perl5/i386-linux/5.00307/auto/Socket/Socket.so Socket.bs and > Config.pm, Find.pm, Basename.pm, Path.pm...etc. which are also in > package perl-base. It says that it succeds > because --force enabled. However, I wonder what damage is being > done. > -perl-base - predep. probl. requires libdl1 to be configured but it > couldn't possibly be configured since this is the DEFAULT and > first package installation. > -psnfss & texpsfnt conflict but --force overcomes this conflict. What > damage is being done here?? > -The tex setup produces so much output it's useless. > -teTeX is NOT the default package, yet, its installation information > indicates that it is the successor to all other > Tex's and is recommended. Why is the teTeX stuff not installed by > default?? (Not neccesarily a bug, but I'm really curious) > -xserver-vga16 allows you to install w/o requiring all the essential > fonts. It fails during configuration when it goes > looking for its 75dpi fonts. I overcame this by going back and > installing every X font package in sight. Still, it's > BROKEN! I already sent mail to package maintainer. He replies > that it's being fixed in 1.3. > > 4) dselect uses the power of perl to create an installation package > worthy of DOS shell script. Basically, the > logic chart of dselect is: > > ARE DEPENDENCIES SATISFIED -- YES -- > install > | > | -- NO -- > THROW A FIT > > The proper way to do things is to keep moving stuff that can't > immediately be installed to the end of the list so that > prerequisites have a chance to be installed and configured. Should be > easy enough to do. At least you picked the right tool :) > > 5) Any upgrades of dselect or dpkg should be done FIRST so that other > packages which depend on the installation > program knowing what is going on won't fail as happens w/ a few. > > 6) dselect uses perl to install. However any problems during a perl > installation (as happened to me previously ) causes dselect to fail > terminally. > This is BAD, VERY BAD. dselect and dpkg are supposed to be the means > to correct installation > problems and they should not be affected by installation problems themselves, > especially perl which is non-trivial. I would suggest a > protected copy of perl be included with upgrades of dselect which could > be kept in an obscure directory exclusively for the use of dselect or other > essential programs. >
I have heard from a number of people that 1.3 will be more extensively tested. I hope that selecting defaults will work better than 1.2. And then there's one additional bug which is really a problem w/ the mirror site: on ftp.kernel.org at_3.1.5-1.deb is in the package file but could not be located in the appropriate place by dselect. I couldn't find the package maintainer's e-mail online and I don't quite get the antique bug tracking system. Someone might want to check on the master site for this problem.
--- Begin Message --- Speaking as someone who has spent lots of spare time over the last few weeks trying to install Debian
w/ only limited success, I feel I have earned the right to criticize you Debian folks for not bothering
to test your stuff.Did the basic diskette installation that I got from ftp.kernel.org's mirror site.
And here is a short list of the stuff that's broken straight out of the box:1) eepro module does not work w/ Intel Ether Express Pro/10+ (It worked fine when I compiled it under
Red Hat)
2) There is no help available at install time for what options are valid and/or required for each ethernet
card. I had to guess the options. Red Hat doesn't suffer from this problem, why should Debian?
3) Using a mirror and installing via ftp, I allowed the default selections to be installed. THE DEFAULTS FAIL!!
Here is a complete list of DEFAULT packages which won't install right out the box and other mistakes:-inn - requires pgp, but since that's not available, not even as a stub, on US servers, it refuses to install
AND, the package description makes no mention of the pgp issue or which servers to get it from or
the readme that you carefully put into the bottom drawer of a locked filing cabinet on a planet orbiting
alpha-centuri :) (Gratuitous Hitchhiker's Guide reference)
-debianutils_1.4.deb - predependency prob. requires libc5>=5.4.17-1 but only 5.4.13-1 installed
-base-passwd_2.0-3.deb - predep. probl. requires libreadline2>=2.1 but only 2.0.1-2 installed
-libc6_2.0.3-2 - predep. probl. requires ldso>=1.8.10-1 but only 1.8.5-1 installed
-hostname_2.01.deb - predep. probl. requires libc5>-5.4.17-1 but only 5.4.13-1 installed
-netstd_2.13-1 - predep. probl. requires netbase>=2.08 but only 2.06-1 installed
-perl_5.003.07-10 - overwrites files /usr/lib/perl5/i386-linux/5.00307/auto/Socket/Socket.so Socket.bs and
Config.pm, Find.pm, Basename.pm, Path.pm...etc. which are also in package perl-base. It says that it succeds
because --force enabled. However, I wonder what damage is being done.
-perl-base - predep. probl. requires libdl1 to be configured but it can't possibly be since this is the DEFAULT and
first package installation.
-psnfss & texpsfnt conflict but --force overcomes this conflict. What damage is being done here??
-The tex setup produces so much output it's useless.
-teTeX is NOT the default package, yet, its installation information indicates that it is the successor to all other
Tex's and is recommended. Why is the teTeX stuff not installed by default??
-xserver-vga16 allows you to install w/o requiring all the essential fonts. It fails during configuration when it goes
looking for its 75dpi fonts. I overcame this by going back and installing every X font package in sight. Still, it's
BROKEN! I already sent mail to package maintainer.4) dselect uses the power of perl to create an installation package worthy of DOS shell script. Basically, the
logic chart of dselect is:DEPENDENCIES SATISFIED -- YES -- > install
|
| -- NO -- > THROW A FITThe proper way to do things is to keep pitching stuff that can't immediately be installed to the end of the list so that
prerequisites have a chance to be installed and configured. Should be easy enough to do. At least you picked the
right tool :)5) Any upgrades of dselect or dpkg should be done FIRST so that other packages which depend on the installation
program knowing what is going on won't fail.6) dselect uses perl to install. However any problems during a perl installation (as happened to me previously ) and dselect now fails. This is BAD, VERY BAD. dselect and dpkg are supposed to be the means to correct installation
problems and they should not be affected by installation problems, especially perl which is non-trivial. I would suggest a
protected copy of perl be included with upgrades of dselect.7) Debian should really request that their description on www.linux.org be changed to:
"Debian is maintained by 120 voluteers who can't be bothered to test their stuff."
And you may think this is cruel, but Microsoft is still winning and I have a bad feeling about Red Hat. -- TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Trouble? e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
--- End Message ---
