You guys are goddamn rude. If this is linux helpfulness at it's best god help linux and open source. To quote three dead trolls in a baggie' every os sucks.mp3:
"now there's linux, or linucks I don't know how you say it, or how you install it, or use it or play it, or where you download it or what programs run, but linux or linucks don't look like much fun. however you say it, it's getting great press, though how it survives is anyones guess, if you ask me, it's a great big mess for elitist nerdy schmucks - "it's free they say" - if you can get it to run, the geeks say "hey that's half the fun", yeah but i got a girlfriend and things to get done, the linux o/s sucks, i'm sorry to say it, but it does." Please note the phrase "elitist nerdy schmucks". I've fucked around with Debian linux now for nearly a week, spending countless hours trying to get it to work and it's still rooted. MAN pages are pathetic. They're great if you're a really experienced user. If not, they are just downright plain confusing, quite often not even touching on the subject that you want to know about. Go visit a few IRC channels for help and you get rudely treated (i've tried 4 different IRC servers thanks and quite politely, i've had enough). The RTFM attitude that most experienced linux users pervay is pathetic. And counter productive to open source' image. The thing is this attitude goes way to the top of linux developers, so it's not going to change. I'll make a parallel here: take for instance a photography club. You get newbies all the time. You don't see experienced members of the photography club in my example back stabbing. Or being rude. Or being unhelpful. They help each other become better at the hobby they have chosen to pursue. Linux and open source is not just a o/s etc. It's a hobby. Treat it like one and have some respect for other users. Offer a helping hand - it's polite and it's good PR. If you guys want to persist in elitist attitudes, fine. In ten years time linux will be dead, open source will be dead and people will remember it all as "god they were rude elitist bastards". Technically linux is more advanced than Microsoft Windows. And yes that does mean a more 'advanced' user is required. And some elbow grease too. Fine. Most reasonablly PC literate users are prepared to put in some effort on their own part. I'll take one more point as an example: I'd recently bought (yes paid money) for Suse 8 pro. I decided to trial it on my laptop, Compaq Armada 1750. Eventually, I got it to work and install. After contacting Suse support that is. Installation manual had nothing on my problem that I encountered. Google search didn't find anything (hey i'm not going to search thru 25k of pages hoping to find something). Search of Suse' dbase didn't find an answer. So I relied on support. Their reply was cryptic to say the least. No mention of how to do it, just do this. That's pathetic. And i'm paying for support! Once I finally got Suse installed sound was fux0red. Odd. Anyways I did check the Suse dbase and found what I thought was my answer - setup settings for my very laptop for Suse 8 pro. I copied the settings for the soundcard to the "T". Wouldn't work. So I emailed Suse ( by this time i'm rather pissed off with it all) and I get told "sorry we don't support soundcards in basic support). Gee - get this guys - in any other business they'd go bust. Big time. That is PATHETIC support. To a "T". And the funny thing? I've had redhat 7, 7.1 and 7.2 on that very said laptop without a single installation issue. And i've had sound working on it on all occasions. Funny that Suse couldn't manage it. This is all about atttitude, and quite plainly, the attitude of most experienced linux users SUCKS. Badly. I'll tell you know - for every 5 people that try linux, 3 walk away from it for these exact reasons. Imagine how many people linux/open source is losing due to poor attitude. If you don't believe me ask newbies for their opinion on this subject. Most are too scared to admit it, so they keep their mouths shut. Some are outspoken, like myself. Dave W Pastern -----Original Message----- From: Mark L. Kahnt [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, 9 September 2002 11:03 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; David Pastern Subject: Re: Why mailing-lists? Usenet have been invented, I hear. ;-) On Mon, 2002-09-09 at 20:33, nate wrote: > Kai Olsen said: > > Hi all. > > > Why on earth (to stay local) doesn't Debian move the lists to a > > newsserver instead ???? > > i'll reply anyways. > > not every ISP has a news server, running a news server is very bandwidth > intensive and disk space intensive. I personally prefer mailing lists over > usenet anyday. Now I personally have no problem with a mail:news gateway > where people can use either method to communicate, I just perfer mailing > lists. > > debian-user is a relativly high traffic list..at least it has a good > ratio of good:crap(e.g. spam) mails, unlike many newsgroups .. > > I'd be interested in hearing if any other distributions use usenet > for user support. I have used SuSE, and FreeBSD's mailing lists ... > > if you don't like it, looks like you've gone away, you won't be missed! > > nate > > > > > -- > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > I'd add that linux.debian.user and muc.lists.debian.user are mail:news gateways, although I know that linux.debian.user is supposed to be a one way gateway - the mailing list showing on the newsgroup and no posts on the newsgroup (although that is misconfigured on a good number of servers, including big ones like SuperNews, and some posts appear there even though the newsgroups were supposed to be read-only - they do not cross back to the mailing list.) It is through those newsgroups that I first became familiar with this mailing list. -- Mark L. Kahnt, FLMI/M, ALHC, HIA, AIAA, ACS, MHP ML Kahnt New Markets Consulting Tel: (613) 531-8684 / (613) 539-0935 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
