-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Ladies and Gentlemen,
I have been using Debian as my primary distribution for the last 4 years. I have been using Linux as my only OS since 1999. My decision to move to Debian included the many derivatives of Debian I may use for various purposes, the concept of apt-get, and the different hardware platforms supported. I have been trying to use Squeeze since December 2011, but unlike Etch and Lenny to date I have not been able to do so due to a variety of Squeeze issues. Etch and Lenny were were generally positive experiences in terms of stability with the exception of apt-get and apt-get related cousins. As of Squeeze I have experienced a number of problems that include, but limited to: * LiveCDs that do not work properly with some VM software, but others just fine at the desktop GUI level * Debian Squeeze Linux kernels that opps so many times it was not funny, Debian Linux kernel sources that had several issues I cannot remember them all both in terms of ability to compile, major functionality differences outright crashes. I was always able to use Etch and Lenny Linux kernels in main or backports with confidence. With Squeeze it was a disaster right from the base virgin install in every respect. When I switched from the Debian kernels to the Kernel.org Linux kernels all the Debian Linux kernel problems disappeared and not one kernel opps since using various Kernel.org 3.2.x and 3.3.x versions as released. I have lots of kernel configuring, compiling and testing experience since 1999. One other distribution which I will not name also had a similar disaster record with their distribution specific Linux kernels and was how I got started in learning how to configure and compile kernels from Kernel.org. * Major and serious problems compiling packages from source. What is even worse is Debian developers seriously challenging why I would compile from source, i.e. security fixes, kernels, etc. Aside from some odd bumps in compiling from source with Etch and Lenny there were no major problems. However I cannot even compile many of the most basic and key elements of Squeeze due to a number of problems related to the package or more commonly the design of the packages in Squeeze. So you have a context of the extent of compiling from source with Etch and Lenny it was almost all packages were recompiled for a variety of reasons - security updates, backports, et al. Suffice to say aside from Debian I also used to rebuild from source with RPM based systems prior to my using Debian as my primary distribution. * Major problems with one very primary and key software package that had on many occasions, including the latest security release, such that the entire system is brought to its knees in what would clearly be classified a system DNS that will last for hours and one cannot access the system as a result. I suspect, but have not confirmed that this many be a double edge problem in that the very primary and key software package may also be playing on top of a Linux kernel issue that I have some extensive testing knowledge of. * apt-get and its related cousins that in fact cause more problems, want to remove key user applications that clearly are not related to the package the user wishes to remove, or will want to revert important changes the user has made to customize their system in normal user ways causing the user to constantly having to spend alot of time redoing the configuration they set up and choose each time an apt-get is run. This has been a problem with Etch, Lenny and Squeeze, progressively getting much worse. The net result is giving up trying to maintain the normal user customizations or spending alot of time and effort with creative workarounds. * apt-get and related cousins become broken when a user configures the system in ways a user is allowed to do so. Again a problem with Etch, Lenny and Squeeze. Again the net result is not being able to use apt-get and related cousins and spending alot of time doing such manually which defeats the purpose of apt-get. * Some packages seem to consistently have the same problems for many version/security releases and/or releases (Etch to Lenny to Squeeze) despite Debian bug logs indicating the issue was fixed, in some cases several times. In some cases the same problem would be reported by someone for the same package that was supposed to have the problem fixed and was not. I never reported or added my experience to confirm the issue existed even after I researched using other resources and skills to fix these Debian packages so they would compile and/or install. Frankly if the same problem was appearing over a few years and several versions of the Debian package for these different software packages then I saw little point to spending my time spinning on the issue and not see it resolved as already stated was resolved when it would take me about a hour or few of research, fixing, repackaging, compiling and/or installing the package myself. There are more issues, a few I tried to report over the years, many I did not as I was almost always met with a challenge of those that felt my concerns were invalid. Once someone else I never knew prior or after made a comment that my concerns were very valid and made excellent points why. Even then the person(s) responsible were defiant. They expected me to spend alot of time testing something they already knew was an issue for Debian, but not for any Debian derivative of at least the past 5 years. So I simply did not use Debian for the solution I was working on. I used another Linux distribution for the matter at hand that worked. As a result it now seems I have to sadly spend time researching and testing an alternative OSS and/or Linux based distribution due to the serious and addition issues that Squeeze has introduced. It also means I have to again migrate my system, configurations and customizations a user is allowed to make to their system. This is not a small effort and one that takes careful effort that include backups, a few weeks of effort over and above trying out other distributions. In essence I have lost confidence in Debian as a distribution. I fully understand OOS, people volunteering their time, et al for a distribution. The point is Squeeze has made a number of backward steps that are Debian specific including decision that are temporary and not fully thought through in key areas of Debian specific scope as opposed to the OOS. A few examples have already been noted in the points above. I tried my best to find solutions to the issues, and yes I did not report many, because experience has been it is yet another layer of challenges that my personal time like the Debian volunteers have limited time is also limited, but at same time seems to amplify such that much more limited time, not less or efficient time is made of everyone's limited time. I hope at some point Debian can restore the stability of Etch and Lenny in future releases and bring more coherence to the Debian specific elements of the Debian distribution. If that happens I would be very happy to give serious consideration to Debian as my distribution again. As it stands now I cannot recommend Debian Squeeze to others. Regards, John L. Males Toronto, Ontario Canada 03 July 2012 20:50 <mailto:jlma...@gmail.com> ============================================================== 2012-07-03 19:38:59.935336752-0400-EDT 3 Jul 19:38:59 ntpdate[14261]: ntpdate 4.2.6p2@1.2194-o Sun Oct 17 13:35:14 UTC 2010 (1) 3 Jul 19:39:57 ntpdate[14266]: step time server 199.212.17.35 offset -0.004486 sec Linux 3.3.4-kernel.org-jlm-010-amd64 #1 SMP PREEMPT Thu May 3 17:02:56 EDT 2012 Modified Debian GNU/Linux 6.0.3 (squeeze) Planning, Upgrade, Modifications from Highly modified Debian 4.x Etch -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAk/zk0wACgkQ+V/XUtB6aBCS/ACfcwtpS6XSYMaPRWf8nm8x1csA WusAn2mCxbR5geKOkVB9+X4wRF8ONfT8 =cLyr -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20120703205020.c90d977f.jlma...@gmail.com
