Hi Dmitry, On Thu, Aug 27, 2020 at 11:04:45AM +1000, Dmitry Smirnov wrote: > I think conversation really should happen in #959174 instead.
There is some truth in this. However, I think that Ondrej has essentially given the same advice as others: > > Multiple people (Adam, Gunnar, myself) have pointed into directions on a > > better technical solution. Please continue the conversation. > > The only alternative I see is to pressure php-fpm maintainer to respond > reasonably. All the points I've already highlighted in the following comment: > > https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=959828#87 I see a recurring theme across the "constructive" replies to this bug: systemd is a fat interface and nothing can sensibly provide it. What can be provided is smaller sub-interfaces that should be spelled out via virtual packages. Incidentally, Ondrej did not just depend on "systemd", but on "systemd | systemd-tmpfiles" instead. He did think about what that interface is that he requires and he did spell it out in the dependencies. As much as I might find your patch to php-fpm reasonable, Ondrej's rejection is fully in line with the GR outcome we had. I don't think there is any reasonable room for changing php-fpm without another big GR. Yes, that means that if you want to avoid systemd in containers, $someone needs to write a lightweight systemd-tmpfiles replacement. So many on this bug objected to having systemctl provide the big fat systemd interface. Why did you rule out providing "systemd-tmpfiles"? As far as I can see, this would be wrong for the current systemctl package as well, but I don't think you'd see such voluminous replies providing this smaller interface from a substitution package that actually does the job. In essence, I think that for moving your use case forward, someone needs to implement the systemd-tmpfiles interface (which is much better defined than systemd), package it and have it provide systemd-tmpfiles. I also think that systemd itself should provide systemd-tmpfiles and that the "systemd |" alternative should be dropped from php-fpm. Furthermore, dh_installtmpfiles should issue the dependency on systemd-tmpfiles instead of systemd. We should pursue these options after a replacement exists in the archive. Helmut
