Hi, Am 12.05.2017 um 21:36 schrieb Steve Cotton: > On Fri, May 12, 2017 at 12:42:09AM +0200, Markus Koschany wrote: >> Am 10.05.2017 um 20:56 schrieb Adrian Bunk: >>> On Mon, May 01, 2017 at 03:50:21PM +0200, Steve Cotton wrote: >>>> ... >>>> Oh well at least this will resolve the Fenix-is-not-64-bit bugs. >>> >>> Is pixfrogger also affected? >> >> I think all images and graphics in pixfrogger are genuine and not copied >> from another (non-free) game. > > Agreed, I think Pixfrogger is OK. I was unsure about the sprites, > but only because it seems to have many different art styles, more > than I expect for the small number of images. > > Without Pixbros it's easier to reimplement Pixfrogger's on another > game engine and drop Fenix.
I don't believe that's the right way to do it. We should focus on the validity of this bug report and don't use it as a pretence to get rid of Pixbros because it would (in theory) make reimplementing Pixfrogger easier, which is also highly unrealistic. Who will reimplement the game? >> I had a look a this bug report and I disagree with the assumption that >> the level designs are non-free. You can clearly see by comparing the >> screenshots from the original game and pixbros, that textures and >> graphics are completely different. Yes, the level design of pixbros >> resembles those of the other non-free games but it is not a direct copy. > > It looks like a direct copy to me, compare the platforms in 31 and 32: > > https://sources.debian.net/data/main/p/pixbros/0.6.3-2/niveles/nivel31.png > https://sources.debian.net/data/main/p/pixbros/0.6.3-2/recursos/floors/floor31.png > > https://sources.debian.net/data/main/p/pixbros/0.6.3-2/niveles/nivel32.png > https://sources.debian.net/data/main/p/pixbros/0.6.3-2/recursos/floors/floor32.png > > All of the levels have that level of similarity, I've just chosen 31 > and 32 because 21-30 have simpler designs. I understand your point and I agree that the levels look similar and resemble each other. However we as Debian are not obliged to apply some sort of preemptive obedience. If there was an actual case and decision that pixbros violates the law we would remove it ASAP from Debian. But there has never been such a case and the game is already quite old. What we need to check is: Does the game comply with the DFSG and does it infringe the copyright of another programmer/artist. In my opinion that is not the case here because the license is DFSG-compatible and the game looks and works differently in style and artwork. We are not aware of a verdict which states that the level resemblance infringes the rights of another party. This whole bug report reminds me of Giana Sisters, a game from the early C64 and Amiga days that I enjoyed playing back then. Only many years later I discovered that Nintendo, the makers of Super Mario Bros., had asked the company who distributed Giana Sisters to remove the game from all stores because it apparently infringed their trademark rights. Here you have a case of trademark violation. (they also used the tagline "the Brothers are history" and made money with it) There was never a court case but if there was a similar case for pixbros, we surely would remove it from Debian too. On the other hand we have many open source games that try to clone an older game but they look and behave often differently and use their own graphics or they just reinvent the engine and then use the original artwork (hence why those games are shipped in contrib) Look at Pathological which is obviously a clone of Logical or Tuxpuck which very much resembles the Shuffle Puck Cafe game. Are they non-free too? I don't think so because I have played the original games and I can tell you that the older games had both better graphics, more levels and were more feature complete. They resemble each other but they are not on a par and the risk that some company sues Debian just for distributing them is highly unlikely because we make no money with them either. So in short: I agree that we should remove the screenshots from the original game, similar to how we handle screenshots on screenshots.debian.net, but the mere level resemblance is not an issue for Debian. Regards, Markus
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