On Fri, Mar 09, 2012 at 07:40:27AM +0100, Takashi Iwai wrote:
> At Fri, 9 Mar 2012 12:22:47 +0800,
> Adam Lee wrote:
> >
> > Add Vincent in cc, because conky read amixer's result.
> >
> > On Thu, Mar 08, 2012 at 05:45:14PM +0100, Takashi Iwai wrote:
> > > > * Adam Lee <adam8...@gmail.com> [2012-03-08 20:36 +0800]:
> > > >
> > > > Package: alsa-utils
> > > > Version: 1.0.25-1
> > > > Severity: important
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > db is not linear, but amixer believe it is.
> > > >
> > > > "amixer get Master" says "Limits: Playback 0 - 74", then everytime I run
> > > > "amixer -q sset Master 10%-", there is 8db dec.
> > > >
> > > > For example, at first Master is 100% and 0db, both alsamixer and amixer
> > > > think it is, and after I run "amixer -q sset Master 10%-", both
> > > > alsamixer and amixer says Master is -8.00db, but alsamixer says it is
> > > > 72%, amixer says it is 89%.
> > > >
> > > > alsamixer is right, amixer calc and set wrongly.
> > >
> > > No, both are correct. You are dreaming too much on the world unified
> > > percentage representation :)
> > >
> > > The percentage in amixer has nothing to do with dB level.
> > > It's just the percentage of the raw value range of that mixer
> > > element. Thus showing 89% is correct. It's 10% down from 100%
> > > (1% is because of the resolution of the raw values).
> > >
> > > Now, alsamixer shows the percentage in a different way. It's
> > > explained well in the source code (alsamixer/volume_mapping.c), but
> > > not mentioned in the man page, unfortunately.
> > >
> > > * The mapping is designed so that the position in the interval is
> > > proportional
> > > * to the volume as a human ear would perceive it (i.e., the position is
> > > the
> > > * cubic root of the linear sample multiplication factor). For controls
> > > with
> > > * a small range (24 dB or less), the mapping is linear in the dB values
> > > so
> > > * that each step has the same size visually. Only for controls without
> > > dB
> > > * information, a linear mapping of the hardware volume register values
> > > is used
> > > * (this is the same algorithm as used in the old alsamixer).
> > >
> > > The percentage representation in alsamixer corresponds to this
> > > mapping, thus it's neither dB nor linear percent.
> > >
> >
> > Hi, Takashi
> >
> > Thank you for replying. But I still insist this is a bug. Three
> > questions:
> >
> > 1, several months ago, it's OK, both amixer and alsamixer use the human
> > mapping(0-10% and 90%-100% are the same change by a human ear), why not
> > now?
>
> amixer hasn't been changed until yet. It handles either in raw values
> or in dB. No human-ear mapping at all. It's never changed since
> years, and won't be changed. If the volume mapping would be
> implemented to amixer in future, it must be only optional.
>
> Only the recent alsamixer introduced the volume mapping to visualize
> the volumes reasonably.
>
OK, thank you. Maybe an optional will make everyone happy.
> > 2, conky(Vincent, I mean ${mixer}), some other software, lot of user's
> > scripts use amixer to set or get volume, expecting the human mapping,
> > why change the behavior?
>
> You must be smoking something bad. The behavior of amixer hasn't been
> changed.
>
I figured out a reason probably, when the limits range is wide, like
0-65536, amixer's mapping and alsamixer's human-ear mapping are close.
If I remember right, my hardware's limits was 0-65536, but it becomes
0-74 after I run "alsactl init", but unfortunately, I don't know how to
modify it back.
> > 3, alsamixer and amixer use the same dB value, why there is difference
> > in percentage? If alsa-utils developer think the human mapping sucks,
> > why you guys still use it in alsamixer? There is no "both correct", the
> > difference confuses user...
>
> That's true. alsamixer should have stopped showing the stupid
> percentage.
>
> The biggest understand is that people (including you) think there is
> an absolutely perfect percentage definition for the sound level. It's
> an illusion.
>
I don't expect an absolutely perfect percentage definition. I want a
human-ear mapping, which alsamixer does well, 100% is about as ten times
loud as 10%. But amixer doesn't work like that, amixer's 100% is about
as *one hundred times* as amixer's 10%.
Maybe it is beautiful, and alsamixer's human-ear mapping is stupid in
the sound science universe. But as a common user, I don't think so. And
I don't know how you guys put up with it :(
> > IMO: Any, any human says 10% plus, she or he definitely wants the human
> > mapping. Maybe you developing guys think there is nothing wrong now, but
> > how about think it from the perspective of user?
> >
> > Please consider about fixing it, at least discuss it in alsa-utils mail
> > list, thank you.
>
> There is no such ML...
>
OK, thank you all the same.
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