I am really getting very tired of having to see this (see forwarded mail at the bottom) in every other thread which in some indirect way involves both me and Sven...
An example of repeated personal attacks and attacks against the d-i team is this recent thread, starting somewhere here: http://lists.debian.org/debian-kernel/2006/08/msg00130.html and continuing from here onwards: http://lists.debian.org/debian-kernel/2006/08/msg00161.html (Yes, I did reply once in that thread with a personal comment.) Some quotes from msg00161: > Now, the problem is that it needs to be integrated into the main d-i > work, and given their over-conservativeness and immobilism, it is way > too late for etch [...] > I don't care about the d-i guys, the DPL clearly said i should expect > nothing of them (well, of a few of them), and fork d-i, so ... [...] > Maybe, but without me stepping up, and pointing the finger to this > problem, nobody would have cared, probably they would have been afraid > to suffer the same treatement i got at their hands for daring mention > those problems. From msg00254: > Why ? i am only stating facts, and they banned me of the d-i team for > daring toeven mention some of the d-i fallacies like this one. [...] > It will not allow anyone to forget the issue and believe that everything > is fine, indeed. [...] > I am forbidden to do kernel/d-i related work by Frans who threatened me > on irc about it. (Note: I never "threatened" him; I just told him that any work by him _on this subject_ would be useless in the current situation as his "solution" was unacceptable to the d-i team.) [...] > Thanks a lot. I think nobody deserves to be threated like i was, but > then in this Frans has showed he is no better than Jonathan or Andrew, > and i guess that the above claim puts you in the same category, unless > you are clueless about what happened. Death and fatal sickness are not > something to be taken advantage of to fight a personal feud and use the > oportunity to get ride of people you dislike, and yet Frans did exactly > that. From msg00294.html: > But then, i was not able to complete these ideas, due to my mothers > illness and death, and the inexcusable behaviour of the d-i folk, frans > at the foremost of them. They prefer to keep the status quo, and do lot > of work, and complain about abi changes, as well as being able to blame > the "lazy porters" (direct quotation of joey hess) for any problem. This > is the thing which led me in clash with them. They perfectly knew about > various d-i brokeness in the buildd, chose not to say anything to the > porters, and because i was not attent enough to the issue to notice > immediately, because i was at my mothers ill-bed, they chose to bash me > and subsequently kick me out. > > This is the worse behaviour that i have seen from any DD so far, even > jonathan and even Andrew had more decent behaviour than this, and the > worse of this is that none of the others involved, not evben the DPL, > have found anything wrong with this behaviour, or at least dared to say > something about it, in fear to that frans would be pissed and leave, and > they would miss the work he has been doing on d-i. > > So, you see, if i am angry and hurt, and you dislike me repeating it > always, you know who to blame. And it just goes on and on and on like that in that thread... Some recent (3 or 4 days) quotes from #debian-kernel: [22:20:29] <cheal> anyway, I see that fjp made the same point in a reply [22:21:59] <svenl> cheal: i don't even want you to mention the fjp name to me, ever. [22:46:38] <svenl> maks: well, i will continue this until Frans apologizes or leaves debian. Similar behavior can be found in the thread starting here, where Sven finds it necessary to revive an old feud with a colleague from the kernel team: http://lists.debian.org/debian-kernel/2006/08/msg00475.html I'm not sure what the DPL, DAM or TC can do about this at this point, but, as I said, I'm getting really tired of it. Personally I feel that Sven is overstepping all boundaries of acceptable behavior here. I try to ignore him as much as possible, but that is sometimes very hard. I am also not extremely happy that this is getting spread all over Debian's mailing lists, even though I am confident I can deal with any backlash that could result from it. Cheers, FJP ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Subject: Bug#382129: Beta3 won't boot on OldWorld PowerPC Mac Date: Saturday 19 August 2006 17:39 From: Sven Luther <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Holger Levsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED], Debian PowerPC <debian-powerpc@lists.debian.org> On Sat, Aug 19, 2006 at 03:15:21PM +0200, Holger Levsen wrote: > > I am also really afraid to interact with Frans, because I would > > rather not be treated as dipshit like Sven was. :( > > Frans is a nice guy. Just don't constantly throw dipshit like Sven did > and neither Frans nor anybody else will treat you badly. I am sorry, but Frans may seem a very nice guy on the outside, but the way he (and a few other d-i team members, but frans was the only one officially aware of my situation), is the worst human and social behaviour i have seen from any DD since all those 8 years i have been a DD myself. The worst thing is that he showed not the least hint of regret for his actions, and that most people either actively supported him, or chose to ignore the issue. > (Sven is a nice guy, too. But... ...I'm tired of this discussion so I > wont go into more detail here. I feel I've said too much already.) Yeah, but i was more important than Frans, and since i didn't show enough respect, ... Sven Luther -------------------------------------------------------
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