On Sun, Jan 29, 2023 at 09:39:41PM -0500, Antoine Beaupré wrote: > On 2019-03-18 21:03:14, Paul Gevers wrote: > > Hi Antoine, > > > > On 16-03-2019 15:46, Antoine Beaupré wrote: > >> On 2019-03-16 15:18:27, Paul Gevers wrote: > >>> On Mon, 05 Jan 2015 15:59:51 -0500 Antoine =?utf-8?Q?Beaupr=C3=A9?= > >>> <anar...@debian.org> wrote: > >>>> On 2015-01-05 15:52:23, Andrei POPESCU wrote: > >>>>> There might however be an issue with remote upgrades over wireless > >>>>> connections handled by Network Manager as it still reinitializes the > >>>>> connection on service restart, so doing a remote upgrade over wireless > >>>>> could under specific circumstances lead to problems. > >>>> > >>>> That. Exactly. :) I would be terrified of doing a remote upgrade over > >>>> wifi, and that's probably because I know a little more what I am doing > >>>> than the average Debian user - so I think it makes sense to warn against > >>>> that particular foot-shooting device. > >>> > >>> I expect this is still an issue, but I wonder how hypothetical this is. > >>> Is there any evidence that this is a real issue? I would update remotely > >>> over WiFi myself, but ... > >>> > >>> So, if we want to share our worries, how to phrase this? Does the > >>> following make sense? > >>> """ > >>> Upgrading systems remotely that are connected via WiFi managed by > >>> Network Manager isn't recommended. Network Manager re-initializes the > >>> connection on service restart which could lead to problems under certain > >>> circumstances. > >>> """ > >> > >> The thing is am I do not believe the Debian package restarts network > >> manager automatically. I have needrestart here for stuff like that, and > >> even *that* blocks that automated restart by default... > > > > So you changed you mind since you filed the bug? Or am I > > misunderstanding you now? > > So I'm not sure anymore. It's been a *long* time now, and I am not sure > exactly why I filed that bug... I wish I had been more explicit on the > "why" back then and an actual failure mode I experienced. I'm pretty > sure there *was* something, but I can't trace it right now. > > Now that we're working on bookworm, I think I agree that we should move > on.
I suspect the connection manager does get restarted on upgrade. I'm on Devuan chimaera, so things may be different for me. But whenever I do an upgrade, I start by overriding the entry in rexolv.conf that the connection manager put there ao that I get a regular DNS location (I usually choose 8.8.8.8 because I can remember it.) (why do I do that? Because long long ago the connection manager seems to have memorized a particular one of Devuan's mirrors and now it always gives me that one and it happens to be broken). I will get it even if it is no longer i the list of Devuan mirrors.. But 8.8.8.8 gets me a new one, and that one works. The entire upgrade than works cleanly, but afterward, if I look at resolv.conf, it has again been overwritten by the connection manager, So I conclude that it has been restarted. So I conclude that the upgrade does indeed restart the connection manager. No problem on my laptop. But I imagine it could cause problems on a remote device it I were to lose contact. -- hendrik > > I still think that people should use a wired connexion for upgrades, but > I am not feeling so strongly about this that it should be part of the > upgrade procedure. In fact, I believe I have myself done upgrades over > wifi without too much problems recently. > > I don't actually buy the "wifi firmware goes away" theory anymore, and > if network manager restarts, who cares? You already have the packages > downloaded at this point and the worse that could happen there is that > you lose your network, which is something a reboot (which you need to do > anyways) would do as well. > > So yeah, let's move on, and thanks for nursing all those bugs all those > years. :) > > a. > -- > La propriété est un piège: ce que nous croyons posséder nous possède. > - Alphonse Karr >
