On Tue, Sep 10, 2019 at 11:10:52AM +0200, Michael Biebl wrote: > Anyway, I marked this wishlist, wontfix as the dependency is there for a > reason. libpam-systemd is non-functional without systemd as PID 1, so > this dependency will stay and is not optional (recommends)
Michael, I would like to ask you to reconsider this. Obviously you are correct that libpam-systemd is not functional without systemd as PID 1. However, the same argument is true of systemd itself, which does not depend on systemd-sysv. It is also possible to bypass systemd-sysv altogether and boot a system with a different init on the kernel command line. If you were to agree to reduce this dependency to recommends, libpam-systemd would still pull in systemd-sysv in all normal circumstances of invoking APT. The removal of systemd-sysv can only be specifically requested by installing another init. Even after this has happened, systemd is still running and libpam-systemd is still functional. Only after a reboot is libpam-systemd non functional (as is systemd itself) , but by that stage the sysadmin is clearly set on using a non-systemd init and can complete the migration to whatever configuration s/he desires. So, my conclusions are - the libpam-systemd dependency on systemd-sysv doesn't actually ensure that systemd is actually PID 1. - if the libpam-systemd dependency on systemd-sysv were reduced to Recommends, systemd-sysv would still be installed by APT in all normal scenarios. - the libpam-system dependency on systemd-sysv makes migration from systemd to another init/logind combination significantly more difficult than it need be by forcing the removal of many GUI components. - the removal of systemd-sysv system running libpam-systemd as part of changing inits does not impact libpam-systemd functionality until after a reboot. Thank you for reconsidering. Mark
