Greetings Nicos. Thank you for your informative email.
On Tuesday, June 26, 2012 09:08:45, Nicos Gollan wrote:
> On Monday 25 June 2012 23:26:50 Chris Knadle wrote:
> > On Sunday, June 24, 2012 21:36:28, Michael Schmitt wrote:
...
> > If you manage to get it to build and run, in the configuration select
> > "Advanced" on the bottom left of the configure window, then in the "Audio
> > Output" section under "Loopback Test", try the "server" setting and see
> > if you can hear yourself through the server.
> >
> > This would specifically be helpful in verifying firsthand if the newer
> > versions of CELT that ship with upstream Mumble will work with older
> > versions of mumble-server.
>
> The client tells the server which versions it supports. If it doesn't admit
> to supporting 0.7.1, the server will effectively assume that it does
> anyway, to retain a stable codec negotiation and to keep misbehaving
> clients from ruining things for everyone. That mechanism is supported by
> all 1.2 server versions (plus or minus a few details, but if you're on >=
> 1.2.3, you should be golden; using 1.2.2 as a server, especially without a
> few patches, may not give you the stable operation you'd hope for).
>
> In a further step, the server makes sure to negotiate a codec that's
> supported by all clients "within listening range".
>
> To my knowledge, that mechanism will work with all server versions that are
> not a stupid thing to use. The only thing new to the party is Opus, which
> requires further protocol support on the server side.
>
> So effectively, as long as your client advertises only codecs it really
> supports and has the baseline codec, server echo will work, as will
> communication with other people.
I'm assuming all of the above is true under normal circumstnaces when CELT
0.7.1 support is included. However with libcelt0-0 removed, mumble version
1.2.3-349-g315b5f5-1 is unable to communicate via server loopback to the
majority of the public mumble servers (at least in the United States) all of
which seem to have versions >= 1.2.3.
None of the server loopback tests with public servers I tested with worked
reliably.
Tests shows that communication with this server works _sometimes_:
1.2.3-361-ga2a3836-ermine Server:"0 FREE OrangeRed Mumble West 0"
(Codec Opus) later retests fail and show Codec: None
Tests failed with these servers:
1.2.3-1~ppa1~lucid Server:"0- MumbleBoxes.com Demo Server - Atlanta #1"
1.2.3-273-g0f4314e-ermine Server:"0- FREE OrangeRed Mumble Central 0"
1.2.3 (Win)
1.2.3 Server:"Breakpoint Lobby"
1.2.3-1ubuntu6.1 Server:"Luke's Server"
The intermittency of server loopback communication with the OrangeRed server
above is interesting, and likely has to do with the protocol negotiation to
find a protocol that all connected clients support. :-(
Unfortunately I've come to the conclusion that with CELT 0.7.1 support
removed, the user experience with public servers is dismal. Since CELT 0.7.1
support is assumed rather than advertised [based on what you've described],
communication without support for it will be unreliable, at best.
> > > In general, I had a few words with some mumble devs on IRC a few days
> > > back. Common thinking there was, removing celt is not a wise option, no
> > > real security exploits known yet, mumble will support celt for the
> > > foreseeable future (1 - 2 years).
> >
> > Do you know if CELT still the default codec?
>
> For the 1.2 series, it's supposed to be. Opus is going to be supported, it
> will be used if all clients support it, and there are knobs in place to
> make a server prefer it even at the disadvantage of older clients, but the
> baseline codec will be assumed for a long time to come.
>
> Hope that clears things up a bit
Yes, it does -- very much so. Thanks very much.
-- Chris
--
Chris Knadle
chris.kna...@coredump.us
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