I am a bit uncomfortable with P46. According to the scope note, “being part of” refers to being a physical part of something. But see the two examples below. 1) The Florence Baptistery (see e.g. en.wikipedia for details and references, scrolling down to the ”Bronze doors” section for the details ) The Baptistery has three monumental doors, masterpieces of Gothic and Renaissance art. One of them is called “Gates of Paradise” for its beauty. These doors were badly damaged by the 1966 flood, were then restored and now are placed in the Cathedral Museum. Copies have been put on the monument. According to the scope note of P46, at present the originals do not form part of the monument. How can we document the concept that they are indeed “part” of it? 2) Dismembered polyptychs Many polyptychs from Italian and other European churches have been broken into parts which at present are placed in different museums. See e.g. UNESCO, “An Illustrated inventory of famous dismembered works of art: European painting, with a section on dismembered tombs in France”, 1974, available online from the UNESCO digital library: https://unesdoc.unesco.org/ark:/48223/pf0000007900 How can we document the former unity of an artwork? Not with P46 as the parts are at present separate. So, is there a solution to state that Giotto’s painting “The Virgin and Four Saints” (described on page 29 of the above), originally located as a whole in the church of Santa Croce, Florence, and now divided into three parts placed respectively at the National Gallery, at the Horne Museum and at Jacquemart-André Museum, physically *were* part of and *conceptually still are* part of the same artwork? Physical proximity does not always imply being part of the same thing; and from the heritage perspective both concepts, past physical contiguity and present conceptual contiguity, are both important: *past contiguity* (= being part of the same thing) *without** conceptual contiguity* (= being intentionally placed in the same place/contributing to form a global object) is just a matter of storage with little heritage relevance, if any. Can anybody help? Franco
Il giorno mer 25 mar 2026 alle 19:59 Martin Doerr <[email protected]> ha scritto: > Equally perfect! > > An example raising a lot of important cultural-historical comments and > implications over centuries would be the Capilla Mayor *forms part of* the > Mezquita of Cordoba, Spain (since 1523). > > Could also be an interesting example of a (much contested) Part Addition > destroying a former part. > > Kind regards, > > Martin > > On 3/25/2026 8:40 PM, Franco Niccolucci wrote: > > and here is another one (a bit chauvinist 😉) > > Brunelleschi's Dome (E24) forms part of the Florence Cathedral (E24) > > it doesn't need reference as everybody knows it (I suppose), but > en.wikipedia can be used if wished: > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florence_Cathedral > or to be more specific, from note #43 to the above > King, Ross (2001). *Brunelleschi's Dome: The Story of the Great Cathedral > of Florence*. New York: Penguin. ISBN > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISBN_(identifier)> 0-8027-1366-1 > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:BookSources/0-8027-1366-1>. > > F. > > On Wed, Mar 25, 2026 at 7:24 PM Martin Doerr via Crm-sig < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> Hi Erin, >> >> Excellent! >> >> Martin >> >> On 3/25/2026 7:47 PM, Erin Canning via Crm-sig wrote: >> >> Hi all, >> >> My hesitation around removing the Hog’s Back example from P46 is that I >> think it should be replaced with another example that uses E24 as domain >> and range. Otherwise, P46 will only have examples which use E22, raising >> the question of why the domain and range is E18 and not E22. The new >> example is also about E22s. >> >> To that end, I would propose the following: >> >> - The Throne Room, Knossos (E24) * forms part of *the Palace of >> Knossos (E24) >> >> >> The Palace of Knossos is already listed as an example of E24 (Evans, >> 1921). The same Evans reference could be used for this. >> >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Throne_Room,_Knossos >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knossos >> >> >> Please tell me if I should start this (the proposal of a new example) as >> a separate issue. I’m open to it not being this example, of course, I just >> am hoping we can replace instead of just remove! >> >> Best, >> Erin >> >> >> *Erin Canning*, MLIS, MMst >> >> D.Phil. student: University of Oxford, Victoria & Albert Museum >> >> AHRC-funded Collaborative Doctoral Partnership >> >> ‘Application of computational approaches in addressing problematic >> terminology within V&A Museum catalogues’ >> >> *[email protected] <[email protected]>* >> >> >> *From: *Crm-sig <[email protected]> >> <[email protected]> on behalf of Christian-Emil Smith Ore via >> Crm-sig <[email protected]> <[email protected]> >> *Date: *Wednesday, March 25, 2026 at 17:45 >> *To: *Eleni Tsouloucha <[email protected]> <[email protected]>, >> Stephen Stead <[email protected]> <[email protected]> >> *Cc: *CRM-SIG <[email protected]> <[email protected]> >> *Subject: *Re: [Crm-sig] drop The “Hog’s Back” (E24) forms part of the >> “Fosseway” (E24). >> >> I will say yes. >> Chr-Emil >> ------------------------------ >> *Fra:* Eleni Tsouloucha <[email protected]> <[email protected]> >> *Sendt:* onsdag 25. mars 2026 18:23 >> *Til:* Stephen Stead <[email protected]> <[email protected]> >> *Kopi:* Christian-Emil Smith Ore <[email protected]> >> <[email protected]>; CRM-SIG <[email protected]> >> <[email protected]> >> *Emne:* Re: [Crm-sig] drop The “Hog’s Back” (E24) forms part of the >> “Fosseway” (E24). >> >> could we then get rid of it? >> It's OK, we'll have a thoroughly checked example for P46 now!! >> >> cheers, >> Eleni >> >> On Wed, Mar 25, 2026 at 7:02 PM Stephen Stead via Crm-sig < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >> That is because there is no meaningful combination 😊 >> >> >> >> Stephen Stead >> >> Mob: +44 (0)7802 755 013 >> >> [email protected] >> >> >> >> *From:* Crm-sig <[email protected]> *On Behalf Of *Christian-Emil >> Smith Ore via Crm-sig >> *Sent:* 25 March 2026 16:56 >> *To:* CRM-SIG <[email protected]> >> *Subject:* [Crm-sig] drop The “Hog’s Back” (E24) forms part of the >> “Fosseway” (E24). >> >> >> >> Hi >> >> I tried to find the combination of the two names. Fosseway is a roman >> route. Hog's Back is a ridge in England and also the name of a road in >> England. I cannot find a meaningful combination of the two. >> >> Best, >> >> Christian-Emil >> _______________________________________________ >> Crm-sig mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://cidoc-crm.org/crm-sig-mailing-list >> >> >> >> -- >> Eleni Tsouloucha >> Philologist - MA Linguistics & Language Technologies >> Center for Cultural Informatics >> Information Systems Laboratory - Institute of Computer Science >> Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH) >> >> Address: N. Plastira 100, GR-70013 Heraklion, Grece >> email: [email protected], [email protected] >> Tel: +30 2810391488 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Crm-sig mailing >> [email protected]http://cidoc-crm.org/crm-sig-mailing-list >> >> >> >> -- >> ------------------------------------ >> Dr. Martin Doerr >> >> Honorary Head of the >> Center for Cultural Informatics >> >> Information Systems Laboratory >> Institute of Computer Science >> Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH) >> >> N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton, >> GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece >> >> Email: [email protected] >> Web-site: http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Crm-sig mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://cidoc-crm.org/crm-sig-mailing-list >> > > > -- > ------------------------------------ > Dr. Martin Doerr > > Honorary Head of the > Center for Cultural Informatics > > Information Systems Laboratory > Institute of Computer Science > Foundation for Research and Technology - Hellas (FORTH) > > N.Plastira 100, Vassilika Vouton, > GR70013 Heraklion,Crete,Greece > > Email: [email protected] > Web-site: http://www.ics.forth.gr/isl > >
_______________________________________________ Crm-sig mailing list [email protected] http://cidoc-crm.org/crm-sig-mailing-list
