Hey,

good luck with your efforts.

It seems to be that is was motivated by alot of frustration due to 
lein-cljsbuild and Google Closure. Most of the issues mentioned in "S-exps in 
your browser" are actually addressed in shadow-build [1], part of the reason I 
wrote it due to some frustrations I had myself.

Seems like you moved on but maybe you are interested ...

Cheers,
/thomas

[1] https://github.com/thheller/shadow-build

On Tuesday, December 2, 2014 10:01:27 PM UTC+1, Amos Wenger wrote:
> There's definitely a business case behind this, otherwise I wouldn't be able 
> to justify the time put behind it :)
> 
> Obviously, one use-case is to be able to use ClojureScript in Rails projects 
> seamlessly, without having to 1) use an external "watcher" tool that runs 
> parallel to the asset pipeline or 2) use something integrated to the asset 
> pipeline but which spins up a fresh compiler instance every time (3-4s 
> penalty right there)
> 
> But even when using ClojureScript in standalone projects, say, only static 
> HTML files + heavy JS client-side logic, it pays off to have a smaller, quick 
> to boot up compiler be it launched fresh each time and using a file cache, or 
> living in the background, integrated to a tool like "guard" (and believe me - 
> an MRI instance is *much* cheaper memory-wise than a JVM instance with the 
> whole Clojure machinery loaded).
> 
> So it's a lot of small things, really. Small annoyances. I'm trying really 
> hard not to criticize mainline cljs too much, because it's an achievement in 
> itself and it'll remain forever the first-class cljs compiler everybody uses 
> — there's all the goodies in there.
> 
> I guess I just wanted something I could know inside-out. I've started 
> seriously getting into Clojure only about 2 months ago, so it's been a great 
> learning experience as well! Plus, it's not my first time writing a 
> transpiler... but Clojure is much nicer to implement.
> 
> By the way, since the original message went through on the mailing list, I 
> managed to get reagent-shin to work completely (as far as I can tell) 
> including input components, etc. The last hurdle was a typo in 
> PersistentArrayMap.-equiv (one damn parenthesis...).
> 
> I reckon shin is a strange beast "it's experimental!" but "it compiles 90% of 
> the cljs code out there without modifications!", "don't use it for anything 
> serious!" but "contributions welcome!", not to mention that it's written in 
> Ruby - but Ruby is just a tool like any other, that has a very friendly 
> ecosystem, and whose VMs boot up fast. That's all I asked.
> 
> Since cljs.core has grown to a healthy 2.2K and ~200 defs, I'm now trying. 
> Macro expansion is the costliest part of the workflow so far, each taking 10 
> to 12ms (because every expansion is a module that has to be translated from 
> AST to JST, generated into JS, loaded into V8, passed its input, serialize 
> its output, then parse its output back from the Ruby side). However I have a 
> few ideas on how to make it all faster. And when I'm out of ideas, caching 
> will help a lot, like mainline does.
> 
> On Tuesday, December 2, 2014 6:16:04 PM UTC+1, Jamie Orchard-Hays wrote:
> > Amos, I'm curious about your motivation for this. Fun? Curiosity? Business 
> > need? I'm using Om/CLJS in a Ruby on Rails app, so this caught my eye.
> > 
> > 
> > On Dec 2, 2014, at 8:35 AM, Amos Wenger <[email protected]> wrote:
> > 
> > > shin (新) is an early-stage but relatively complete implementation of a 
> > > ClojureScript-to-JavaScript compiler, written in Ruby, and that does not 
> > > rely on Google Closure's libraries or compiler: 
> > > https://github.com/memoways/shin
> > > 
> > > The README contains probably more than you ever want to know about Shin, 
> > > but I am of course happy to answer any of your questions :)
> > > 
> > > The main differences are:
> > > 
> > >  - It's not based on any previous Clojure compiler - no use of the 
> > > analyzer, etc.
> > >  - It generates AMD modules rather than Google Closure modules
> > >  - Data structures are implemented on top of Matt Bierner's HAMT+ for the 
> > > time being (but that may change)
> > >  - Macros are expanded in JavaScript, using V8 (driven from Ruby)
> > >  - Uses `escodegen` to generate JavaScript
> > > 
> > > What sorely missing? At this time: metadata support, type annotations, 
> > > transducers, a cache for the compiler so recompiles are faster, and 
> > > actually passing source location information from the AST to escodegen.
> > > 
> > > But otherwise, functions, defprotocol/deftype, macros, base collections 
> > > (list, cons, hash-set, hash-map)
> > > 
> > > Right now the most involved piece of ClojureScript code (except for ~30% 
> > > of cljs.core and 100% of clojure.string) is probably Reagent, which I am 
> > > almost done making work with Shin: 
> > > https://github.com/memoways/reagent-shin — I wanted to wait till it was 
> > > complete to make the announcement, but I figured I could probably use 
> > > some help along the way :)
> > > 
> > > Why should anyone care about this ?
> > > 
> > >  - Alternative implementations of a language are just plain healthy, even 
> > > if you don't use them.
> > >  - Polyglot programming is awesome (Clojure/Ruby/JS all in one!)
> > >  - 330 specs and growing: 
> > > https://github.com/memoways/shin/tree/master/spec (maybe we can get a 
> > > runnable specification of ClojureScript at some point?)
> > > 
> > > Oh, and hopefully obvious disclaimer: don't use it for anything serious! 
> > > It still breaks often, it's not even a month old, handle with care.
> > > 
> > > That said, helping hands are more than welcome, in particular in these 
> > > areas:
> > > 
> > >  - Identifying differences in behavior with the mainline CLJS 
> > > implementation
> > >  - Writing more specs & porting more of cljs.core
> > >  - Profiling & making the compiler faster (probably more for Ruby folks!)
> > >  - Figuring out a JS-friendly way to distribute libraries (bower? 
> > > component?) — eventually have libraries that compile both on mainline and 
> > > shin?
> > > 
> > > Love,
> > > — Amos
> > > 
> > > P.S: I'm not sure how the whole licensing thing works, since 
> > > ClojureScript is EPL+CA and Shin is just MIT-licensed. There's a note in 
> > > the README, let me know if there's anything else I need to do!
> > > 
> > > -- 
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