On Thu, 9 Sep 2010 14:20:29 -0700 (PDT)
Rainer Schuster <[email protected]> wrote:
> no this discussion is going to be ... won't say it.
>
> Quiz:
>
> - is your solution functional (regarding the requirements=
Yes.
> - is your solution scallable? (groing large or running
> plattformindependent?)
It will run on any of a large number of platforms, work with any of a
large number of languages and web servers, and will work with far more
clients than I ever expect to be able to connect to it.
> - is your solution easily maintainable (in the sense of mutating it
> some days to get complex and have 100000 LOC)
The chosen deployment methodology doesn't care how many LOC there are
in the program being deployed.
> - is it very easily testable
Yup.
> Why should clojure fit into your micro world of doing administrativ
> scripting? Being a dev for 13 years I really don't like system that
> don't fullfill my questions. I was a maintainer of a system containing
> of 8.000.000 LOCs (were I was responsible for round about 300.000) I
> can tell you tons of horrible stories.
Because it's a programming language, and the questions I'm asking are
*orthogonal* to questions about the programming language. I build
medium-size distributed systems that do things like process hundreds
of gigabytes of data a day, or build 10s of thousands of distinct
Linux distributions over that same 24 hours. They use the same
languages and technologies I'm talking about here.
But - because they play well in an environment where "simple things
should be simple" is an axiom, they also let me do zero-config
deployment of simple applications. There's no fundamental reason
clojure can't be used that way. Nuts, I've done it. I'm discovering
that the Java community doesn't seem to care about this - or rather,
is so used to the current situation that they find it acceptable.
> Now how is this realted to your question? The right tools for the
> right job.
Yup. But a deployment tool and a programming language are different
things. That the deployment tools available for clojure are so far out
of line with the language itself is sad.
> So the simplest possible hast nothing todo with the right choice, from
> my point of view.
> Its not only a matter of having the power at your fingertipps (in only
> using 2 lines of code).
Once again, that the application only takes two lines of code is
immaterial. It could take two million. It's what it takes to get it
deployed that's the problem.
> There are even dynamic vs. static language wars. There's no winner,
> there's no looser. It depends.
> Be open minded and use the right tool for the right job an don't
> complain about technologie x or y.
Can I complain when the right tool doesn't exist? That's where I am
now. There's a great language. There are some tools that are - at
least at first glance - right tools for deploying enterprise
applications built in that language. There don't seem to be any tools
that are right for deploying simple applications.
Of course, I'll continue complaining about technologies when they
suck. If people don't complain about them, there's no chance of them
ever getting fixed. Isn't that the point of MS's "Windows 7 is my
fault" ads?
> Have you ever used .NET or Mono? Yes, No, Why? Im not biased to *nix
> (actually i'm running a win7 dev machin, because my job requires it)
I've never looked at .NET or mono beyond looking over the C# language
and deciding it didn't offer enough of an improvement over Java or C++
- neither of which I consider a suitable tool for real-world work -
for it to be worthwhile. I've largely ignored Java outside of Clojure,
and expect to continue doing so. I still like OO programming, and
don't want to ruin that.
<mike
--
Mike Meyer <[email protected]> http://www.mired.org/consulting.html
Independent Network/Unix/Perforce consultant, email for more information.
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