On Thu, 9 Sep 2010 11:30:51 -0400
Wilson MacGyver <[email protected]> wrote:
> I'm not sure what your point is. If I want to write a hello world php
> script on a unix
> system, but apache and mod_php weren't setup. I'd first have to install them
> and configure them.
That simple things should be simple. Setting up a web server - and
associated tools - to the point that you can install applications on
it isn't necessarily simple, so I don't expect it to be simple. On the
other hand, I only have to do that *once*, not once per application
(at least, I hope I don't have to do it once per application!).
> This is only easy these days because most linux come with apache installed,
> php installed, mod_php preconfigured for you.
Just one of the reasons there's nary a linux box to be found in my
house.
> You want something simple that requires no config, this can happen
> during dev. Just write the hello world, and start the embedded jetty using
> ring.
David Nolan just described that. It's not bad at all. Given a shell
script to launch it, it might even be usable for the projects I have
in mind. It would have been a lot more impressive if leinigen hadn't
made at least two incorrect assumptions about what I wanted to do in
other operations that I'd have to fix.
> If you really just want to serve hello world, you don't need to resort to
> deploy a war file. you can just take that hello world script, start the
> embeded
> jetty and mod_proxy to it. That's hardly the "production way", but
> then I don't know that writing a web app that prints 1 line is really
> very production
> either.
But again, running a proxy just to wire up a simple web app takes you
out of the realm of "simple".
There are production web services that print a single line. Well, ok,
these days they print a line or two of controls and 20 lines of
advertising as well, but still wind up printing one value of interest:
current temperature at some location, current stock price for some
stock, current exchange rate for some currency, etc.
I chose hello world because the question is more about how much
overhead using even "simple" java infrastructure adds than about the
application.
> Now it's true that there are some overhead to make sure your webapp produce
> a war file and can be deployed to ANY containers. It's not 3/1/0 as you
> claimed.
A) I didn't claim I could do this with war files - those are a java
thing, and it's the java infrastructure that annoys me; I claimed (and
just posted the example) that I could do it with Unix tools. B) It's
3/0/1, not 3/1/0.
> But it's a pretty small part of the web app dev cycle in my experience. I
> mean,
> it's not like I spend 90% of my time writing config files and 10% of my time
> writing clojure/groovy/java/(insert whatever jvm language) code, web dev or
> otherwise.
Of course not - you don't spend all your time doing simple
projects. Nobody does. But simple projects taking 10 times as long as
they should because of that still sucks.
<mike
--
Mike Meyer <[email protected]> http://www.mired.org/consulting.html
Independent Network/Unix/Perforce consultant, email for more information.
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