On Tue, Jun 25, 2024 at 4:27 PM Stefan Zager <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 25, 2024 at 8:26 AM Vladimir Levin <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> >> >> On Mon, Jun 24, 2024 at 5:54 PM Stefan Zager <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Hey all, >>> >>> I recently took over ownership of this project, and I have a couple of >>> updates... >>> >>> - The target launch milestone is now M128. >>> >>> - In addition to the changes in functionality previously discussed, we >>> are going to ship a new DOM Element attribute under the same feature flag: >>> currentCSSZoom >>> <https://drafts.csswg.org/cssom-view/#dom-element-currentcsszoom>. >>> >> >> It sounds like this may warrant another intent. Is there a reason this is >> bundled together with updating existing APIs for CSS zoom? >> > > The intention here is that all aspects of the new zoom behavior will be > bundled together into a single self-consistent package, with no a la carte > option. Because this attribute is entirely new, it doesn't add any > compatibility risk; and since it has already shipped in Firefox and has WPT > coverage, it doesn't add interop risk (on the contrary). > > Oh, I didn't realize that the new attribute is already shipped in Firefox. The plan to bundle this together SGTM > > >> >> >>> >>> - Taking into consideration the issues with gmail and excel, we're going >>> to take a more cautious approach in rolling this out: it's currently >>> enabled in a canary/dev finch experiment, and it will follow M128 through >>> normal channel promotion. We will also create a reverse origin trial to >>> allow impacted sites to disable the new behavior at their discretion. >>> >> >> I would also encourage you to reach out to Excel and Gmail teams directly >> so that they are aware of the reverse origin trial and this plan. >> > > Indeed! > > >> >> Thanks! >> Vlad >> >> >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Stefan >>> >>> On Sun, Mar 3, 2024 at 7:21 AM Ilan Tchernowitz <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> Per request - created a chromium bug >>>> <https://issues.chromium.org/issues/327837303> on this issue. >>>> >>>> Thanks >>>> >>>> On Tuesday, February 27, 2024 at 10:41:01 PM UTC+2 Yoav Weiss >>>> (@Shopify) wrote: >>>> >>>>> On Mon, Feb 26, 2024 at 7:36 PM Mike Taylor <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Thanks for the feedback Noam - would you mind filing a bug at >>>>>> crbug.com/new that contains some steps to reproduce the breakage, >>>>>> and possibly some affected codepaths and report back here? Agree that >>>>>> breaking Excel is not a great outcome. >>>>>> >>>>> That's an understatement.. >>>>> >>>>>> On 2/26/24 10:01 AM, Noam Helfman wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Great to see work is being done to get this standardized! >>>>>> >>>>>> However, I think it should not be shipped yet. >>>>>> >>>>>> We have done some basic testing of this feature with Excel Online and >>>>>> it breaks lots of critical user scenarios related to our zoom feature. >>>>>> This >>>>>> will impact many millions of users and regress a major feature. >>>>>> >>>>>> We will need to spend time to investigate if there is a simple >>>>>> workaround that we can use to address this regression. >>>>>> >>>>>> Few questions: >>>>>> 1. What is the expected timeline to ship this? >>>>>> >>>>>> Good question. +Yotam Hacohen may be able to say more. For now, I >>>>> see that the feature is still not enabled by default >>>>> <https://source.chromium.org/chromium/chromium/src/+/main:third_party/blink/renderer/platform/runtime_enabled_features.json5;l=3597?q=StandardizedBrowserZoom%20-f:out&ss=chromium> >>>>> . >>>>> >>>>>> 2. Is there an option to programatically determine if the feature is >>>>>> enabled? (e.g. would *CSS.supports("zoom")* return *true*? ) >>>>>> 3. Will there be an option to enable/disable it (e.g. release with >>>>>> OT)? >>>>>> >>>>>> It might be a good idea to have an OT that turns this feature off, >>>>> even if it's only for Excel. (although if we missed this breakage, I >>>>> wonder >>>>> what other breakage we may have missed) >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Please do not ship this until we can confirm we have a workaround or >>>>>> the API is adapted in a way that does not regress existing behavior. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> Noam >>>>>> On Thursday, February 15, 2024 at 12:18:06 PM UTC+2 Daniel Bratell >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Same for me. A proprietary long term CSS property is now fully >>>>>>> standardized and will be interoperable. This is a win for the web, and >>>>>>> thank you for all who worked to make it happen! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> /Daniel >>>>>>> On 2024-02-14 18:13, Yoav Weiss (@Shopify) wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Just wanted to say that it's exciting to see this standardized after >>>>>>> all these years. Given the manual inspection, it seems like shipping >>>>>>> this >>>>>>> to 100% with a killswitch is (hopefully) safe enough! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Wed, Feb 14, 2024 at 6:11 PM Yoav Weiss (@Shopify) < >>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> LGTM3 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Wed, Feb 14, 2024 at 6:00 PM Philip Jägenstedt < >>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> LGTM2 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Wed, Feb 14, 2024 at 11:53 PM Daniel Bratell <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > LGTM1 >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > /Daniel >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > On 2024-02-09 20:24, 'Yotam Hacohen' via blink-dev wrote: >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > On Thursday, February 8, 2024 at 6:46:00 PM UTC-8 Domenic >>>>>>>>> Denicola wrote: >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > On Fri, Feb 9, 2024 at 10:55 AM Yotam Hacohen <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > Hey Dominic and thanks for the input! >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > On Sunday, February 4, 2024 at 7:34:53 PM UTC-8 Domenic Denicola >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > It's always exciting to move such an old feature from >>>>>>>>> nonstandard to standardized! >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > On Sat, Feb 3, 2024 at 4:18 AM 'Yotam Hacohen' via blink-dev < >>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > Contact [email protected] >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > ExplainerNone >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > FWIW, I think the contents of >>>>>>>>> https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/pull/9699 and >>>>>>>>> https://drafts.csswg.org/css-viewport/#zoom-property are probably >>>>>>>>> a good enough explainer. It might be a good idea to update >>>>>>>>> ChromeStatus to >>>>>>>>> link to them. >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > Added those. Thanks! >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > Specificationhttps://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/pull/9699 >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > Design docshttps:// >>>>>>>>> docs.google.com/document/d/1AcnDShjT-kEuRaMchZPm5uaIgNZ4OiYtM4JI9qiV8Po/edit >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > Summary >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > Aligns the existing implementation of the previously >>>>>>>>> non-standard CSS zoom property to align with the new standard. This >>>>>>>>> changes >>>>>>>>> various JS APIs to align with the spec (see design doc), change zoom >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> apply to iframes, and change it to apply to all inherit all length >>>>>>>>> properties (currently it only changes inherited font-size) >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > Blink componentBlink>Paint >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > TAG reviewNone >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > TAG review statusPending >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > Probably this fits under the first exception here. >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > Risks >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > Interoperability and Compatibility >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > There is web compatibility risk for these changes. However, >>>>>>>>> previous research indicates broken content due to unexpected changes >>>>>>>>> of the >>>>>>>>> JS APIs is very unlikely, since: * The changes to the JS API simply >>>>>>>>> change >>>>>>>>> the coordinate space of the responses, not the syntax or what APIs are >>>>>>>>> available. * Most pages found during the research didn't appear to >>>>>>>>> use CSS >>>>>>>>> zoom at all and the ones that did only relied on the visual effect, >>>>>>>>> not JS >>>>>>>>> APIs. It's possible some pages will be broken by the changes to >>>>>>>>> inherited >>>>>>>>> properties other than font-size, or applying zoom to sub-frames, but >>>>>>>>> based >>>>>>>>> on previous research, those are very likely to be minor visual >>>>>>>>> changes that >>>>>>>>> don't break fundamental user interaction with the site. None of the >>>>>>>>> sites >>>>>>>>> reviewed contained iframes underneath a zoomed ancestor. We will use >>>>>>>>> direct >>>>>>>>> outreach to avoid any broken features in Office 365 or the Gmail >>>>>>>>> native >>>>>>>>> mobile app >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > Can you give more quantitative details on this previous >>>>>>>>> research? E.g. when you say "most pages", is that 3/5 pages? 99/100? >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > Sampling pages from the doc, I couldn't find even one example >>>>>>>>> of a page that uses zoom in a way that will change it's behavior >>>>>>>>> (i.e. - >>>>>>>>> calling GetBoundingClientRect or GetBoundingRects on an element with >>>>>>>>> CSS >>>>>>>>> zoom). I also compared those sites visually side by side on a stable >>>>>>>>> version of chrome and a local version with the planned changes in >>>>>>>>> effect, >>>>>>>>> and couldn't see any change. >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > This sounds like a good sign, but I'd still appreciate some >>>>>>>>> numbers. So it's zero out of how many? >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > I checked the first 15 websites in the list on this doc: >>>>>>>>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1cmbXpjAcXAht2ufi7bNKy-rbVNveqaf0UzeYg_DIMNA/edit#heading=h.6sz4u73bikbd >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > Regarding the direct outreach targets you mentioned, are they >>>>>>>>> already fixed, or do they need more time to update? >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > We have reached out to the relevant people. >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > So, you have contacted them, but they still need more time to >>>>>>>>> update? Do you have an estimate for when they will be updated? >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > We already got a response from the gmail team, and everything is >>>>>>>>> ok there, we even have a jsfiddle example that shows that the visual >>>>>>>>> aspect >>>>>>>>> doesn't change for them. Still waiting for a response from the Office >>>>>>>>> 365, >>>>>>>>> if we don't get a response in the next week we will reach out again >>>>>>>>> for a >>>>>>>>> better defined timeline. >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > What is your rollout plan for this change---straight to 100% >>>>>>>>> with a killswitch, or a gradual rollout, or...? >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > Our plan is to go straight to 100% with a killswitch. >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > Gecko: No signal Filed a standard position request: >>>>>>>>> https://github.com/mozilla/standards-positions/issues/977 >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > WebKit: No signal Filed a standard position request: >>>>>>>>> https://github.com/WebKit/standards-positions/issues/311 >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > Web developers: Positive ( >>>>>>>>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1cmbXpjAcXAht2ufi7bNKy-rbVNveqaf0UzeYg_DIMNA/edit#heading=h.6sz4u73bikbd) >>>>>>>>> Research collected as part of the previous attempt to remove CSS zoom >>>>>>>>> demonstrated several use cases. >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > Other signals: >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > WebView application risks >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > See Interoperability and Compatibility above >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > Debuggability >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > None >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > Will this feature be supported on all six Blink platforms >>>>>>>>> (Windows, Mac, Linux, ChromeOS, Android, and Android WebView)?No >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > Is this feature fully tested by web-platform-tests?Yes >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > All JS APIs affected by zoom are tested with the following wpt >>>>>>>>> tests: >>>>>>>>> https://wpt.fyi/results/css/cssom-view/offsetTop-offsetLeft-with-zoom.html?label=master&label=experimental&aligned&q=cssom-view%2FoffsetTop-offsetLeft-with-zoom.html >>>>>>>>> https://wpt.fyi/results/css/cssom-view/client-props-zoom.html?label=master&label=experimental&aligned >>>>>>>>> https://wpt.fyi/results/css/cssom-view/getBoundingClientRect-zoom.html?label=master&label=experimental&aligned >>>>>>>>> https://wpt.fyi/results/css/cssom-view/getClientRects-zoom.html?label=master&label=experimental&aligned >>>>>>>>> https://wpt.fyi/results/css/cssom-view/scroll-zoom.html?label=master&label=experimental&aligned >>>>>>>>> https://wpt.fyi/results/intersection-observer/zoom-scaled-target.html?label=experimental&label=master&aligned >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > Are the non-JS aspects of the API also tested? >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > Yes, the tests also test the cpp code that is affected. >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > My question was about the visual aspects. Are there any, for >>>>>>>>> example, reftests, which show that zoom has a visual effect? >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > Yes, there are reftests for zoom in the wpt folder. The behavior >>>>>>>>> of many aspects of the zoom are not changed (Especially the visual >>>>>>>>> effect >>>>>>>>> of CSS zoom on most elements, excluding iframes) and those tests stay >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> same. We will also add reftests for iframes with CSS zoom withe the >>>>>>>>> patch >>>>>>>>> adding those changes to iframes. >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > Flag name on chrome://flagsStandardizedBrowserZoom >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > Finch feature nameStandardizedBrowserZoom >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > Requires code in //chrome?False >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > Sample linkshttps://jsbin.com/wasafateko/edit?html,css,js,output >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > Estimated milestones >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > No milestones specified >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > Link to entry on the Chrome Platform Statushttps:// >>>>>>>>> chromestatus.com/feature/5198254868529152 >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > This intent message was generated by Chrome Platform Status. >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > -- >>>>>>>>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>> Google Groups "blink-dev" group. >>>>>>>>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>>>>> it, send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>> > To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAAOtuiYKjC9Gt%2BgXwWNT_hJneBMa053RizCX5Xj5p_07CVLXkA%40mail.gmail.com >>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > -- >>>>>>>>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>> Google Groups "blink-dev" group. >>>>>>>>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>>>>> it, send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>> > To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/1879c472-27c5-46f1-858d-125890807771n%40chromium.org >>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > -- >>>>>>>>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>> Google Groups "blink-dev" group. >>>>>>>>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>>>>> it, send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>> > To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/7efa033c-2a53-4ac0-8c1a-23c0f9d72f40%40gmail.com >>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>> Groups "blink-dev" group. >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAARdPYcAahY9vaoH3Pzths-fM-quQuynoQTvRHuqVMuTo5cMKQ%40mail.gmail.com >>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "blink-dev" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/9fb533af-50e1-4246-98f5-717bced6797cn%40chromium.org >>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/9fb533af-50e1-4246-98f5-717bced6797cn%40chromium.org?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>> . >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "blink-dev" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/924ccd3e-5d28-45ac-8c8e-308551a39a13n%40chromium.org >>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/924ccd3e-5d28-45ac-8c8e-308551a39a13n%40chromium.org?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>> . >>>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "blink-dev" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAHOQ7J_ecs-gR1eGTGV4qyQyRtB3%3DPnUr78R7rFb%3DEj07vAe1A%40mail.gmail.com >>> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAHOQ7J_ecs-gR1eGTGV4qyQyRtB3%3DPnUr78R7rFb%3DEj07vAe1A%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>> . >>> >> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "blink-dev" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAHOQ7J8kg7Na1RyG61TsLtcGQw7jqgYOr0Jo5M4dWsZa3GKPqQ%40mail.gmail.com > <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAHOQ7J8kg7Na1RyG61TsLtcGQw7jqgYOr0Jo5M4dWsZa3GKPqQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "blink-dev" group. 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