LGTM3 I think there's some interop risk here if Apple and Mozilla won't add support for explicit "auto" values and developers would start using them, but I agree that there's no real incentive for developers to do so.
On Mon, Oct 24, 2022 at 4:47 PM Mike Taylor <[email protected]> wrote: > LGTM2 > > On 10/19/22 8:38 AM, Philip Jägenstedt wrote: > > Thanks Munira for the detailed explanation, and thanks for filing the > Gecko and WebKit bugs! > > I think that from a web developer's point of view, this won't be a feature > that you actively use, but sensible defaults and the lack of a surprising > behavior/bug. Thanks for sorting that out! > > LGTM1 > > On Wed, Oct 19, 2022 at 2:29 PM 'Munira Tursunova' via blink-dev < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> Hi Yoav, >> >> Thank you for your comments. Here are some of the answers to your >> questions from the chat: >> >> > What would Firefox/Safari do when users start using the "auto" value? >> Are they planning to add support for it? >> >> When they cannot parse the “auto” value they will use the default value, >> which for the case with variable fonts is the supported range and for non >> variable fonts in normal. >> >> >What are the default picked characteristics? Are they specified? Are >> they the same for all implementations? >> >> Yes, the default font characteristic is same for every browser, in other >> words, if you are not specifying ‘font-weight’, ‘font-style’ or >> ‘font-stretch’ descriptors at all, the font will be regular and will look >> same in every browser, i.e. not bold, not obliqued and not widened. >> >> On Wed, Oct 19, 2022 at 6:52 AM Yoav Weiss <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Oct 18, 2022 at 5:27 PM 'Munira Tursunova' via blink-dev < >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Contact emails >>>> >>>> [email protected], [email protected] >>>> >>>> Explainer >>>> >>>> https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=973194 >>>> >>> >>> That's restricted to Google folks, so not great as a public explainer. >>> It's also not very descriptive. >>> >> Can you write a few words inline about what how those ranges are used, >>> what developers typically do with them, and what are the implications on >>> the font download (if any)? >>> >> >> Currently if you want to use variable font and write something like this: >> >> @font-face { >> >> font-family: "Roboto"; >> >> src: url('support/fonts/RobotoExtremo-VF.subset.ttf'); >> >> } >> >> >> >> In Chrome it would be considered as: >> >> @font-face { >> >> font-family: "Roboto"; >> >> src: url('support/fonts/RobotoExtremo-VF.subset.ttf'); >> >> font-weight: normal; >> >> font-style: normal; >> >> font-stretch: normal; >> >> } >> >> The range of the available values would be clamped to normal, so, for >> example if later you want to use bolder text for the following @font-face, >> the bold faces would be synthesized and the whole functionality of variable >> fonts would be lost. >> >> According to the current spec >> https://www.w3.org/TR/css-fonts-4/#font-prop-desc, the new keyword >> ‘auto’ works as follows: >> >> - >> >> For static fonts auto means normal, in other words “font-weight: >> auto” for those means “font-weight: normal”. >> - >> >> For variable fonts auto is the supported range, “font-weight: auto” >> would be “font-weight: <lower_bound_of_the_supported_range> >> <upper_bound_of_the_supported_range>” depending on what ranges the font >> supports. >> - >> >> ‘Auto’ is the initial value for the for ‘font-weight’, >> ‘font-stretch’ and ‘font-style’ descriptors inside @font-face rule, so, >> if, >> for example “font-weight” descriptor is not specified in @font-face rule >> at >> all then for static fonts it will considered as normal value and for >> variable fonts – the supported font range. >> >> Interoperability and Compatibility >>> >>> Low, feature already shipped in Firefox and Safari. >>> >>> Gecko: Shipped/Shipping Variable fonts work without specifying the >>> supported range, however the browser does not yet support auto value >>> parsing. >>> >> >> Is what they are shipping interoperable with what you want to ship here? >> >> The main goal of the feature is that it is not required to specify the >> supported range in the descriptors and Safari and Firefox already implement >> and support that. The part that they are missing is ‘auto’ keyword support, >> however if, for example the ‘auto’ keyword is set for ‘font-weight’ >> descriptor, i.e. “font-weight: auto;”, they will fail to parse this line >> and the initial value will be applied for the descriptor, so for variable >> fonts it would be internally set to the supported range and for static >> fonts the ‘normal’ value. So if you look at the tests >> font-face-*-auto-variable.html in >> https://wpt.fyi/results/css/css-fonts?label=experimental&label=master&aligned >> they describe the above mentioned situation and some of them are already >> passing in Firefox and Safari, more information in the ‘Interoperability >> and Compatibility’ sections in the original email. >> >> We consider the lack of parsing an explicit `auto` correctly a bug in >> Safari and FF and filed the corresponding bug reports for Safari >> <https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=246742> and Firefox >> <https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1796116>. From an >> interoperability point of view, we don’t think that is a critical issue as >> authors are not expected and not encouraged to use an explicit `auto` value. >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "blink-dev" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAAO7W_CZdxUcvWtqoSpf9HuMqRqCMOPgd9qwi86%3Do7Uv2EpGDw%40mail.gmail.com >> <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAAO7W_CZdxUcvWtqoSpf9HuMqRqCMOPgd9qwi86%3Do7Uv2EpGDw%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "blink-dev" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAARdPYcsuS9N-e3R8TCjWNuR-knQo4p504TSR8Fwm%2BnuoLNeCA%40mail.gmail.com > <https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/d/msgid/blink-dev/CAARdPYcsuS9N-e3R8TCjWNuR-knQo4p504TSR8Fwm%2BnuoLNeCA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "blink-dev" group. 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