Page 269 - see page 269. Nice!
On Nov 20, 2007 2:42 PM, Michael Will <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Yeah K+R is fun. Look up 'recursion' in the index... > > Sent from my GoodLink synchronized handheld (www.good.com) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Nathan Moore [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>] > Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 12:41 PM Pacific Standard Time > To: Peter St. John; beowulf@beowulf.org > Subject: Re: [Beowulf] Teaching Scientific Computation (looking for > theperfect text) > > Thanks for the message Peter. I agree with you about the lucidity of K&R, > although I think the Landau-Lifshitz series of texts eclipses it in > overall > greatness. > > Regarding demographics, I'm thinking mainly about the device > driver/embedded > systems/EE track, in which a fortran interface seems to be unheard of. > The > only field I know of in which Fortran is common and vital is numerical > weather modeling. Maybe others on the list can disabuse me of this > notion. > > Also, the truck full of gravel analogy is great, thanks! > > On Nov 20, 2007 1:30 PM, Peter St. John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Nathan, > > I'm sure you'll get lots of very experienced responses but if I may: > > 1. Book. K&RC is the best book ever, on any subject. > > 2. Demographics. It looked to me that engineers were typically > > learning and using C (C++, C with Classes, sometimes Java) more than > > Fortran. I would have expected similar among physicists, but I > > understand that a lot of Fortan is still extant and vital. Also there > > is some convergence, ultimately it won't matter much. > > 3. Pedagogy. When computational efficiency is important, the > > distinctions bettween sending data, and sending references to data, is > > real important. I think it can be made vivid, early; what's the > > difference between my handing you a card with the shipping address of > > the warehouse that has the gravel you need for your construction > > business, and handing you one thousand wheelbarrows full of gravel? > > Either way can be right in the circumstances, but the difference is > > obviously very relevant and should be taught even if you use a > > language that hides the distinctions. > > 4. You might let them choose, but that might make more sense with > > graduate students, than undergrads, and you may not like grading > > papers in multiple languages. So you might ask about departmental > > guidelines, what languages they will be exprected to learn anyway. I'd > > advocate presenting some of the shorter but fundamental algorithms in > > two languages, if you have time, but time is scarce and it's a physics > > course, not a programming course. > > 5. Choose C because there is no real choice, but I don't have time to > > explain that in the margin of my email :-) > > Peter > > > > > > On Nov 20, 2007 1:33 PM, Nathan Moore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > I regularly teach a college course in a physics department that deals > > with > > > scientific computation. After students take the course, I expect that > > > they'll be able to write simple "c-tran" style programs for data > > analysis, > > > write basic MD or MC simulations, and be fairly fluent in Mathematica. > > > > > > In the past, I figured that with the breadth of topics included in the > > > course, Fortran, specifically the basic, simple, and reliable F77 > > dialect > > > (w/ some F90 conveniences) was the language to teach. In my own head, > > my > > > rationale was: > > > - Most students can grasp the basics of fortran in half a day's > reading, > > so > > > I can spend more class time on science and math (probably because > there > > are > > > no pointers - I think that C is much harder for students and sometimes > > > "seems" less like mathematical syntax than f77) > > > - "Classical Fortran" is a great text and is readable for self-study > (I > > know > > > of no such text for C/C++) > > > - several free compilers exist (g95 seems ok so far) > > > - Netlib, lapack, and numerical recipes cover the math library > > adequately > > > - F77 is compiled (Perl/python are too slow for an MD/MC sim and I > > figure > > > that students should know at least on compiled language and one > > scripting > > > language to be competent) > > > - MPI is a relatively basic addition to the language (again, no > > pointers, > > > allocation, or addressing) > > > > > > After reflection though, I've started to wonder about the wisdom of my > > > choice. Specifically (like RGB), I love the GSL library, and > extending > > GSL > > > to fortran in an intro class is non-trivial. Additionally, most > vendors > > > supply "fast" hardware libraries in C (I may be ignorant, but if a > > student > > > wants to call an AMD ACML fast-math function( > > > http://developer.amd.com/acml.jsp), or write a linear algebra function > > to > > > run on a graphics card(http://developer.nvidia.com/object/cuda.html ), > > the > > > vendors seem to assume that you'll write the code in C). > > > > > > Also, and more relevant, I assume that most employers word-associate > > > "Fortran is to backwards as C is to competence". > > > > > > So, I'm thinking about reworking the class to favor C, and fearing 3 > > weeks > > > of pointer and addressing hell. For those of you who teach scientific > > > computation (and also those of you who hire undergrads), I'd be > grateful > > for > > > your thoughts. One specific question I have is what text covers > > scientific > > > programming and touches on MPI using the C language. > > > > > > regards, > > > > > > Nathan Moore > > > > > > > > > -- > > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > > > Nathan Moore > > > Assistant Professor, Physics > > > Winona State University > > > AIM: nmoorewsu > > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Beowulf mailing list, Beowulf@beowulf.org > > > To change your subscription (digest mode or unsubscribe) visit > > > http://www.beowulf.org/mailman/listinfo/beowulf > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > Nathan Moore > Assistant Professor, Physics > Winona State University > AIM: nmoorewsu > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > -- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Nathan Moore Assistant Professor, Physics Winona State University AIM: nmoorewsu - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
_______________________________________________ Beowulf mailing list, Beowulf@beowulf.org To change your subscription (digest mode or unsubscribe) visit http://www.beowulf.org/mailman/listinfo/beowulf
