----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert G. Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Angel Dimitrov" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: <beowulf@beowulf.org>
Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 2:03 PM
Subject: Re: [Beowulf] commercial clusters
On Tue, 26 Sep 2006, Angel Dimitrov wrote:
Hello,
I have some experience of running of numerical weather models on
clusters.
Is there many clients for processor time? As I saw the biggest
supercomputers in the World are very busy! I'm wondering if it's
worthwhile to setup a commercial cluster. Intel are planning for new
processors - two CPUs each with quad cores. Two such machines will
have power like one 50 GHz CPU:-)
Any ideas and comments are welcome!
I'm jumping in briefly and late -- it's been tried before unsuccessfully
as already noted.
The REASON that is tends to be unsuccessful has to do with the nature of
the beowulf model, though. In order to succeed you'd need just the
right mix of clients. They'd have to have:
* Infrequent but large computational needs. Infrequent because if
they were frequent it will always be cheaper for them to build and run
their own cluster. Large because otherwise you don't NEED a cluster.
* No computational infrastructure to speak of already. The marginal
cost of adding a cluster to an EXISTING server room is pretty much the
cost of the machines, space, power and cooling, and you cannot retail
these to somebody for what this would cost them in existing facilities
and make money. Their economies of scale are the same as yours, but
they don't have to pay your salary and profit.
* Sufficient computational expertise to use parallel programs or large
scale compute clusters in the first place, with the SMALL exception of
preexisting commercial code. This requirement is nearly orthogonal to
the first two, note -- you're now looking for a compute hacker god
parallel programmer who has big needs, rarely and no server room.
The above is the biggest problem. That's why you need good software that
'hides' the supercomputer. Basically they want with their windows PC start
your program (see attachment) and click somewhere and then run on a big
supercomputer (for the average guy on the street a big supercomputer is
everything that 2 hands cannot lift).
If it was possible to build your own cluster in easy manner and then run for
example a chessprogram at it in a user friendly way,
there would be 100k+ clusters right now of 64 cpu's and more.
Especially now that 1 chip hardly gets faster, we must think in future more
and more
in clustered manner.
Just doing simple math what i own myself:
1996 : 200Mhz p6
2006 : 2.4Ghz opteron
both are 3 instructions per cycle processors.
So hardware guys won exactly factor 12 in raw processing speed.
Moore's law: each 18 month doubling in transistors.
deduction from that: doubling in speed.
Would mean we are faster now a 106 times ( 2 ^ 6.66 )
So somewhere a factor 8 is missing.
The average user feels very well that there is no doubling in speed each 18
months.
So offering solutions to normal users to get their favourite program
executed faster in an user friendly manner is definitely a big market.
Vincent
* No ready access to money to build their own cluster and
infrastructure from the ground up. Growth equals power in most of these
arenas, politically -- if the IT department rents compute facilities,
they are less important and easier to replace.
The number of potential customers who get through this gauntlet are few,
and they are more likely to seek help from cluster consultants who make
the cost of entry even lower -- they'll basically build you a cluster,
install software on it for you, and run it for you and can almost
certainly eat your lunch since they are perfectly capable of and happy
to set up a cluster in THEIR server room for some client if the money is
right. There may well be companies in this space, in other words, but
renting out a cluster is incidental and done per client in such a way
that the client can always take over ownership and as much of management
as they like. They don't DEPEND on this market only for bread and
butter.
Note that any of these needs ALSO apply in webspace or the ASP
marketplace, but the difference is that there there are many commercial
apps and that those apps are used by companies with little to no local
infrastructure beyond a web drop and a network of e.g. Windows boxes.
No need for any sort of computational expertise or (really) significant
compute resources. And at that, ASP or offsite server setup with an ISP
tends to be "expensive" compared to anything BUT hiring your own systems
staff...
rgb
Angel
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--
Robert G. Brown http://www.phy.duke.edu/~rgb/
Duke University Dept. of Physics, Box 90305
Durham, N.C. 27708-0305
Phone: 1-919-660-2567 Fax: 919-660-2525 email:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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