----- Original Message -----
From: "Paris Apostolopoulos" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 13:05
Subject: RE: Web Services book



>I should point out that some of the Irani and Bashar is wrong, because
those bits in Axis havent ever worked. Example: Global Fault handling
and lifecycles. If they'd >>>>  >written code to test these things, they
would have noticed. The fact that they didnt, worries me. The source is
there, why didnt they delve into it?

>Τhat is true but its not the only book around that happens to have
invalid and bad code..I can mention several other examples .Especially
when it comes to the AXIS world where still things are being developed
and the web services world is still 'under construction' , then it might
be a bit normal. But I agree with you they shoould have tested the
code..some of their mistakes in the code are quite...bad.


In the open source world there is no such thing as stability. in
particularly, with point releases on a regular basis and the new source
visible, books visibly date faster than books against closed source, even if
the effective lifespan is the same. (i.e. a book about .net1.0 is 100%
accurate till .net1.1 ships, whereas OSS books slowly decay)

But at the same time, there is an opportunity
1. you can see what is changing and revise the book to match, as you write
it
2. you can file bugreps easily
3. you can fix things as you go along

I wrote a book on Ant with Erik Hatcher last year (product placement: java
development with ant, http://manning.com/antbook). You can look at our
progress through Ant's CVS log and the bugzilla system: we found oodles of
issues and inconsistencies. We could have written about them, but it was
often easier to fix the bug as that benefits more people. Oft times we'd
write about something, then go back and fix it and rewrite stuff. Then other
people would change things and we'd have to rewrite it. by the time we'd
finished we'd been through every class in the 150K line project, edited
their java doc comments and generally struggled to keep up to date with
changes. But the end result was we froze the code on the day ant1.5 shipped,
and the process we used to generate the reference appendix is going to be
the future of ant's autogenerated documentation:
http://nagoya.apache.org/gump/javadoc/ant/proposal/xdocs/build/docs/manual/

In comparison the other books on ant (by ORA and sams) went for the rewrite
of the documentation tactic, which takes a lot of drudge work and (in my
biased opinion) doesnt add as much value. So the ORA ant book came out in
may, six-eight weeks before ant1.5, yet was based on ant1.4. That was the
wrong move, and you can see it in their amazon sales ranking, which is 1/10
ours. But the third book, the sams one, is (mostly) up to date with ant1.5,
yet it gets completely ignored, even though I do think it is better than the
oreilly book. People do make brand driven choices, when they are not always
appropriate.

>>I hope Oreilly will have a book about Axis too!
>>They are, but that doesnt guarantee quality. It guarantees some sales
>regardless of quality,  but does not mean that it will be the perfect
>book. That depends on the authors.

>Well I tend to belive that Orelliy has more Java oriented books in
>comparison with WROX and to tell you the truth most of my Java related
>books happen to be Oreilly publications!

I would recommend you should be ruthless and judge each book on its own
merits.


>I have read 2 other books from
>Oreilly about Web services (Java and SOAP , Building Web services with
>SOAP) , they were not bad but a bit abstract in some cases!

There are at least two members of the Axis dev community working on axis
books, including James Snell. As long as the authors are good at explaining
themselves, they should be good books as the developers dont just understand
the 'what' of axis, they will understand the why -the design decisions, the
future options, etc, etc.


>Anyway its not bad to have a range of available books about
>AXIS..especially for the newbies.Because right now IMHO,..for the
>absolute newbie  'AXIS the next generation of SOAP' is the best
>available book!

I agree.

Reply via email to