> On Feb. 1, 2013, 2:58 a.m., Wyatt Epp wrote: > > "What would be the best approach here?" > > > > Frankly? Scrap it; this is not good interaction. Context menus are rarely > > modifier modal and that's being generous (I have never seen one before > > now). Excepting a very few special cases (e.g. vim), modality is something > > to be avoided. Neither is this sort of menu something Amarok trains users > > for: it only happens with this one of the eight context menu arrangements I > > was able to find in my current layout. > > > > Short term, revert to showing the options as before, with confirmation as > > you see fit. If you're concerned about accidental action, segregate them > > or even put them in a submenu for "permanent actions" or something to that > > effect. > > > > Long term, the aim should be that nothing is possible with a context entry > > that isn't reversible with a simple undo. If, for some reason, things > > cannot be undone, that should be very clear up-front. Is there a > > fundamental reason that move operations aren't able to be undone? On the > > topic of permanent deletion, though I've personally used it in the past, I > > question the necessity of having it in this list. It's not available > > anywhere else in the interface, so its inclusion is both dangerous and > > without precedent. Conversely, moving to trash can be undone quite easily. > > Is this not sufficient? > > > > Regards, > > Wyatt > > Bjoern Balazs wrote: > +1 > > Ralf Engels wrote: > I agree. > Hidden menu entries is a new UI concept that I have never seen before. > If that is used wider (e.g. in whole KDE) then I am cool with it. > Currently exactly two context menues are using it. So even we are not > consistent in it's use. > > Bart Cerneels wrote: > Shift for delete/move was implemented in kde's file browser already > before I added this to Amarok. It's not an uncommon feature. > > Matěj Laitl wrote: > Bart, this is not about "Shift to delete/move during drop", but "Shift to > show different context menu" - a very different thing. > > Bart Cerneels wrote: > That is what I was talking about. Can someone check dolphin's behavior? > > Ralf Engels wrote: > Bart, you are right. Dolphin has it and I never noticed it. > So, it's not without precedence. Then let's add it in all places where it > makes sense. > > Matěj Laitl wrote: > Bart, Ralf, I fear you are talking about something completely unrelated > with this review request. > > Ctrl to copy and Shift to move are standard Drag & *DROP* (I cannot > stress it enough) modifiers. And Shift is a standard modifier for Delete > *keyboard shortcut* meaning to bypass the trash. This review request has > nothing to do with Drag & drop or keyboard shortcuts. It is about *context > menus*. > > @Ralf, we already have "hold shift to move instead of copying" for > dropping items onto Collections pane. > > Edward Hades Toroshchin wrote: > > This review [...] is about *context menus*. > > Hiding context menu items until the user holds Shift is not uncommon. In > an operating system called Windows™ (which you might have heard of), a file > context menu would contain an "Open with..." item only if the Shift key was > being held. I think (but 'm not sure) it would also bypass "Trash™" if the > user held Shift while clicking "Delete". > > > Wyatt Epp wrote: > @Bart "It's not an uncommon feature." > Sorry, but it really is. Can you name more than the file browser and > Amarok that have context menu entries that change depending on whether a > modifier key is held? I'd be particularly interested in hearing about > non-KDE applications that have this (so I also can take them to task for > doing it; this is not a behaviour to emulate). Amarok isn't even consistent > about applying it; hit ^o and try it in the "Play Media" window. > > I _will_ acknowledge that this behaviour is present in Dolphin, but I'm > afraid I have some rather pointed questions for whoever signed off on it. > Its discovery is dependent on a user opening a context menu AND having the > shift key pressed before closing the menu AND noticing that the entry has > changed (especially in Dolphin which, you'll note, doesn't appear to even > have the tooltip!). It completely violates the user's expectation of > transparency, and does so in a way that's unlikely to happen simply because > of the mental acrobatics involved in mousing and keyboarding simultaneously.
Edward Hades Toroshchin: "Hiding context menu items until the user holds Shift is not uncommon. In an operating system called Windows..." Actually this behaviour is rejected by MS styleguide. "Don't change menu item names dynamically." (http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/aa511502.aspx#general) A menu is used to collect all actions to allow users to find any operation with the program there. If you hide something or change it dynamically he or she will not know if a certain option is available. Your suggestion to apply a hint is a bad solution since hints are rather uncommon in menus: Who waits the two seconds or so until it shows up? (I never did and tried right now with FF - only favourits are hinted.) I for myself struggle always with the combination of shift/ctrl with keys. Which one is it to move files instead to copy? There is no cue but the result. (Therefore I use Krusader.) To "make accidental data-loss (or unwanted effect) harder for novice users" I would recommend to add a simple dialog. Exchange the position of Yes/No and make No the default. Most users will either click off such a dialog the first time. The idea to "make the context menu simpler" should be discussed. IMHO, that isn't really neccessary. - Heiko ----------------------------------------------------------- This is an automatically generated e-mail. To reply, visit: http://git.reviewboard.kde.org/r/108686/#review26491 ----------------------------------------------------------- On Jan. 31, 2013, 8:09 p.m., Edward Hades Toroshchin wrote: > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > This is an automatically generated e-mail. To reply, visit: > http://git.reviewboard.kde.org/r/108686/ > ----------------------------------------------------------- > > (Updated Jan. 31, 2013, 8:09 p.m.) > > > Review request for Amarok and KDE Usability. > > > Description > ------- > > Some of the actions in context menu are shown only when the Shift key is > pressed. We were wondering, if this were okay at all, and if yes, which hint > would be better. > > To explain a bit more: > in Amarok 2.5, the context menu (of a track, album etc.) used to have all the > options (among others): > * Copy to Collection -> > * Move to Collection -> > * Move to Trash > * Delete > > With goal to (a) make accidental data-loss (or unwanted effect) harder for > novice users (b) make the context menu simpler, a fancy "hold Shift to swich > to move/dangerous operations" behaviour was implemented: > - without Shift held: > * Copy to Collection -> [with "Press Shift key for ..." tooltip] > * Move to Trash [with "Press Shift key for ..." tooltip] > - with Shift key held (updates itself immediately after pressing the key): > * Move to Collection -> > * Delete > > However, we discovered that discoverability (hehe) is really a problem when > even experienced long-term Amarok users didn't know about the way to trigger > Move/Delete. What would be the best approach here? > > > Diffs > ----- > > > Diff: http://git.reviewboard.kde.org/r/108686/diff/ > > > Testing > ------- > > > File Attachments > ---------------- > > Behaviour of Amaork 2.7 with Shift key held > > http://git.reviewboard.kde.org/media/uploaded/files/2013/01/31/hidden_actions.png > Suggestion to improve discoverability > http://git.reviewboard.kde.org/media/uploaded/files/2013/01/31/hint_1.png > Behaviour of Amarok 2.7 without any key held > http://git.reviewboard.kde.org/media/uploaded/files/2013/01/31/hint_2.png > > > Thanks, > > Edward Hades Toroshchin > >
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